What Are We, Exactly? (Traders & Item Shop)

[Lackofgravy]

next patch: BI graft

Mongo rage and overrule grafts too!

[CppThis]

I'd have to say, if you are willing to spend $1-2+ in real money on a buff can rather than simply walk up to someone in-game and ask "hey can I get a buff please?", then you are either extremely antisocial or bastardly rich. To each his own I guess...

I agree with you there, but it still totally undermines the concept of nano-support classes. It's also basically going to send a message to everybody that doesn't already have a MP/trader/crat that there's no point making one because nobody's ever really going to "need" the special buffs that define those classes.

AO -> Adventurers Online...even more than it already is. :s

[Esqi]

Most of the ones I know and speak to on a fairly regular basis seem to think it's working out fine. =) There'll always be some people unhappy with some things; it's just the way it goes. Typically the ones who aren't happy are the ones who are having to wait the longest, and admittedly I can understand that frustration - Being eager to leap into the thick of things and then having to wait your turn is hard, and I can totally understand that. The Professionals who actively work with us and contribute to the discussion/feedback process, however, all seem to be relatively pleased with how the program is going overall. =)

But, that said, no need to continue the derail any further. Let's keep the conversation on Sateos's original post from here on out. =)

:thumbsup:

[Azza]

No, Saetos just doesn't really like talking to us that much via the 'official channels' - He very rarely posts as a professional to us, or talks to us on the development team in the Professional areas of the forums. He tends to forgo those and brings up issues here instead. =)

Wow, nice passive-aggressive response in which you do the exact same thing you're lambasting Saetos for doing. He may not be a great professional, but you're an actual professional, doing what you're paid to do - which probably shouldn't be flaming your users.

Nah, stuff like the LE procs isn't on the table. We only want target-castable buffs; nothing that the profession could only cast/use on themselves (and yes, i know about the comp tradeskill buffs - coulda sworn those were target-based; that was my mistake and those won't be going into the shop).

Just curious, for completeness' sake, are these in there: treatment transfer? improved cut red tape? minor suppressor? improved stare of cerberus? clan solitus shadowbreed? If you're going to make it so I don't need to seek anyone out to twink stuff, better do it right.

Ah, what am I saying, Funcom isn't getting another dollar from me at least until TSW.

[Saetos]

He may not be a great professional

Ow :<

[Esqi]

So what if wrangles are PP buyable, it's for buffing so im sure they will place pvp timers on them.

It's not the end to traders, quite the contrary.. and if you dont have a trader friend or an alt, you would know how frustrating it is to obtain OSB's when twinking that new alt or, twink.

Seriously.

[Saetos]

So what if wrangles are PP buyable, it's for buffing so im sure they will place pvp timers on them.

It's not the end to traders, quite the contrary.. and if you dont have a trader friend or an alt, you would know how frustrating it is to obtain OSB's when twinking that new alt or, twink.

Seriously.

It's still a question of why they're giving other people, in essence, their own buff-booth (an idea many have rejected) for a small fee; and a question of why, in a situation where population is low and content is spread far apart, to further seperate and spread people out.

At this point, it's now a matter of plunking down 20 bucks or so and getting an instant level 199 character with ql250 OFAB, S7 weapons (or whichever that're farmed/looted/tradeskilled/sugardaddied from mains), and all it takes is ql200 implants and a quick voyage to Inferno to finish off the other 21 levels. And all with the only interaction being the same 199s in those Inferno missions.

[Esqi]

/snip

I think you will find that many a suggestion has been made at some stage for veteran rewards and gameplay options that these resemble.

If someone wants to pay X dollars for a buff pack, so be it.. it's not like it will be the norm but the option will be available for people who are likely twinking to get it done there and then, not after some full day loggin buff toons (which really, when you think about alts, cost you :P), or running around looking for xyz prof to ask..

Then a matter of keepin current buffs active while u hunt for others, which means logg off or play betting game and hope you obtain remaining buffs intime.

For people who use it for twinking tower alts mainly, and are prepared to pay.. will likely do so, it will also be a good way of using the paidpoint system further than what it currently is.

If this stuff is buyable with ingame creds, thats great but ill bet it costs a decent penny, if it's pp it will be a luxury, not a necessity.

With precautions made to pvp flagging (duel/bs/flag) put inplace, i really cant see the harm.

With the OT stuff like level boosts, hey if i want a new char and im happy to pay for a small increase.. so what. I am already going to have a mate, or my alt team OST/kite me which costs me or a mate a subscription or two to do in any case.

The people your claiming who will miss out on that leveling experience, wont experience it generally for to long with the players who this service would be aimed at in any case.

[Demoder]

It's still a question of why they're giving other people, in essence, their own buff-booth (an idea many have rejected) for a small fee;

Since no information has been released about prices, I'm going to assume they've discussed pricing with the professionals. Have they? And if so, why ain't you giving them the feedback there?
If they haven't... You have nothing to base that argument on. We can't really tell if this will be a good or a bad or an irrelevant thing until we see the prices.

[Mastablasta]

Since no information has been released about prices, I'm going to assume they've discussed pricing with the professionals. Have they? And if so, why ain't you giving them the feedback there?
If they haven't... You have nothing to base that argument on. We can't really tell if this will be a good or a bad or an irrelevant thing until we see the prices.

They have not, no. Why should they? There was some talk about what might be a good suggestion for a price, but other than that nothing.

[erozc]

I am posting part of what I said in FWM here too, rephrased:

As I said in FWM:

If this includes Wrangles, and if it makes it into the game as such, I'm deleting Ryuahn and resigning my post as Trader professional. This is absolute **** treatment of the profession, allowing other players to purchase our nanos and our tools, the same nanos and tools that made us Traders. And with all Engineers being guaranteed tradeskillers, why even have us anymore?

AO -> Adventurers Online...even more than it already is. :s

Yeah, sure. Advy defining buffs - leet morph, and SL maps (must be very defining since we actually get team versions from Scheol quest, lol) were given for freaking veteran points. Initially, they were tradable too, so you could buy them for a few million credits for crying out loud. And now you're crying about everyone being able to get a wrangle for €€€?

What I don't really agree with is trader portable GMS being sold, and ignoring the "GMS in markets, please" suggestion.

[Insane666]

sad to see ao going down this road, but even more, if the wrangles wont automatically delete from ncu on attack ( pvp or pvp ) this will be yet another fail

btw, fail is the word that just comes to mind every other second reading fc's idea's lately

gettin less and less interested in continuing to play this game tbh

[CppThis]

Yeah, sure. Advy defining buffs - leet morph, and SL maps (must be very defining since we actually get team versions from Scheol quest, lol) were given for freaking veteran points. Initially, they were tradable too, so you could buy them for a few million credits for crying out loud. And now you're crying about everyone being able to get a wrangle for €€€?

Advy is not defined by its buffs, that's my whole point. Take away trader/MP/crat buffs and all you really have is a mediocre pet class with okay crowd-control abilities.

[Dredd]

and if you dont have a trader friend or an alt, it can be frustrating to obtain OSB's when twinking that new alt or, twink.

^^paraphrased

This is really a potential problem which can affect a player's enjoyment of the game. It's not as populated as it once was and I've seen people spend hours looking on shopping channels/OOC for a buff before giving up and logging off. I'll try help if I see someone getting frustrated in OOC/shopping but can't always do that. If people have an option to do this themselves, it might keep them in the game. If their perception is "screw this game, I can never get a buff", then it would be best if they had an option- and ultimately help the population. I agree, the better solution would be to just have more people around, but failing that, this might prevent a different kind of ragequit.

I think the price these buffs are set at will be a big factor in how much they're used. I suspect that the devs would much prefer people get buffs from other players, but the first M is missing from this MMO. AO isn't very Massive at the moment (population-wise) so this sounds like a suitable option. Hopefully the price of a buff-can will be set high enough that people will only turn to it as a last resort.

P.S. I like Saetos' ideas for new Trader buffs- %nano damage increase, heal efficiency etc..

[SoapTarder]

to be honest, i can see where the OP is coming from here. my first toon to hit 220 was my trader, and really, since my trader hit 220 I immediately perked and ip'd for tradeskilling and now my trader is a tool that i use ingame to make/sell/buy stuff and give alts buffs. i don't think my trader has even fought anything for at least a year or two. when i did play my trader in teams, the things i brought to the table were:

1) abolish AC (which is great for levelling teams full of gimps who wanna feel like they're fighting low level/high hp RK mobs)

2) Umbral. nuff said. great when theres not an mp around. it also blinds (in RL) everyone in the team when it refreshes.

3) Outfit (decent team nano recharge.) this is nice if there is no nt around. sucks though because it only lasts a minute, and it blinds (in RL) everyone in the team repeatedly during that minute.

4) Calms. for levelling teams, traders can calm just about any normal mob one at a time and do it quickly.

5) Drains. nuff said. they do what they're supposed to. keeps weapons out of OE, and great for twinking. also weakens mobs decently.

6) Healing. at lower levels, traders are great healers. at higher levels, they are decent self healers at best, although i wish the health drain was like shades, where it lasted a minute and ticked away.

7) Damage. at lower levels, traders can muster a decent amount of damage. unfortunately, at endgame, even with silverback pulling off 13k aimshots constantly, it still doesn't amount to a whole lot. an MA with pistols would do as good.

8) Team AC buff. meh...

9) Give Health/Nano. meh...

10) Roots. They work, but everyone knows that roots in pvm are a good way to kill a squishy melee prof.


as I haven't played my trader in a while, thats all i can remember atm. looking at that list of things a trader brings to a team in pvm, it may seem like traders bring alot to the table. But, in reality we don't.

in an endgame raid, there is no tool in that list that is needed or really that useful when compared to what other professions bring to the table. the only tool that could be considered useful might be the abolish AC nanoline, and even then, if you replace the trader with a shade/soldier/MA/other DD, the extra damage from the DD balances out the extra damage done with Abolish running on mobs from trader. so really, even thats not useful.


So, the only thing that leaves my trader good at, is pvp and tradeskilling. i need the tradeskiller because i find engi's to be too "guy who spends all his time in the basement building train models" -esque, and so I use my trader. if funcom changes trader toolset in such a way as to allow traders to have tradeskill setup and pvp setup at the same time (IP wise), then i will smile, and alot of pvper's will groan because there will be traders running amuck in pvp everywhere like never before.

in conclusion, traders are really a useless piece of crap at midgame/endgame (imo) for pvm, but are very threatening in pvp at every level. where they really shine though, is in tradeskilling/buying/selling. imo, the OP must have an engi that he uses already for tradeskilling, and probably doesnt pvp either, and must have an agent for FP, because as useless as my trader is in many regards, i could never delete her.

regarding the gms tool; for some reason it doesn't bother me that others may get access to it if they have to pay enough. there are many other things that traders have that should never be usable by other professions. ie - tradershop, complit buffs (damn you agents). those i would flip out over, but not the gms tool. On the other hand though, considering that at some point in the future gms will likely become an auction house style system where you buy from the terminal, then this item immediately becomes a whole lot more useful and having other professions besides traders using it would make even me (as apathetic as i am to the topic) flip out and cry foul too. and maybe this is what the OP is looking ahead at, and not just its current usefulness.

regarding wrangles; the whole reason i started my trader in the first place, was becuase you could never find a trader when you needed one, and if you did, you would get the "are you tipping" bs that I absolutely hate. in fact, when my trader got high enough to chain cast 131's, I would perposefully refuse tips and spam "trader looking to give out 131's" on shopping channel to get back at the doughheads who thought they deserved a tip from pressing a button. so does it matter if people can buy a wrangle on a stick from the itemshop? not really, especially since people will only use it if they cant find a trader and they really need the buff. its not worth making a fuss over.

/wall

[Saetos]

in conclusion, traders are really a useless piece of crap at midgame/endgame (imo) for pvm, but are very threatening in pvp at every level. where they really shine though, is in tradeskilling/buying/selling. imo, the OP must have an engi that he uses already for tradeskilling, and probably doesnt pvp either, and must have an agent for FP, because as useless as my trader is in many regards, i could never delete her.

Depends on what you mean by midgame. I actually find 90-130ish (essentially, Ely Heckler levels) to be our shining levels; we can drain up to our highest nanos, calms come into play, many different weapon choices open up, and our Umbrals and Outfits mean a lot.

[SoapTarder]

Depends on what you mean by midgame. I actually find 90-130ish (essentially, Ely Heckler levels) to be our shining levels; we can drain up to our highest nanos, calms come into play, many different weapon choices open up, and our Umbrals and Outfits mean a lot.

this is true. its been such a long time since i played a trader at that level range, i had forgotten what those levels were like.

[Gora]

I hereby pledge to check in Bor, OA, and Omni Blue for wrangles before I go buy a similar buff from a terminal. Of course, this will only work if traders have turned off their /anon....

[Demoder]

sad to see ao going down this road, but even more, if the wrangles wont automatically delete from ncu on attack ( pvp or pvp ) this will be yet another fail

This has been said over and over in every equal thread: They will not be usable for anything but twinking

[Mastablasta]

This has been said over and over in every equal thread: They will not be usable for anything but twinking

I don't think anyone actually reads anything on this forum, they just come in, get an impression from skimming, then post something angry in every other thread and leave, never to return and see whether anyone might have replied to their post or not.