If you agree that nerfing AS for most profs is the first step to really balancing pvp

[Lektronik]

Top of the food chain should exist in every game, and it does. They're often called "winners" don't know if you heard of that term. They're people with good means to fight (class, equipment) and the ability to control those (skill, reflexes).

"Top of the food chain" indicates a high level of superiority in the overall scheme of PvP, towards all professions. Yes, you can also call them winners, but not justly. The reason they are winners is because they are overpowered and imbalanced with the game in-general, which is why "top of the food chain" should not exist.

Just because you are a winner doesn't mean you have to be top of the food chain.

If you think AO should be special and there should be no one on top and everyone should be equal with the same weapon special, even though it's a competitive game (obviously it's competitive since it has pvp), you're a retard.

Sadly, you fail at reading and comprehension. I never said anything suggesting that everyone should be equal with the same weapon special.

I believe that each profession should have his/her own toolset that is powerful enough to give any character a reasonable chance at killing someone who has spent time farming phatz. Notice I said "reasonable". Obviously someone who has spent time farming phatz should have some kind of leading edge but it shouldn't be such a wide gap as it is today.

Nerfing AS before fixing such a gap is a recipe for /fail, plain and simple.

[Pafpuf]

Nerfing AS before fixing such a gap is a recipe for /fail, plain and simple.

Well I never suggested anything like that so:

Sadly, you fail at reading and comprehension.

My post is on page 1.

[Sterva]

Leave it to paf not to realize that Perfekt isn't even making sense--he's just trolling. lol

[Shareida]

Hmmm epic.


I'd settle to the only logical choice for my profession, since i admit that i am a selfish a**.

Nerf AS for everyone but traders.

Joke aside.

A hard nerf to make it a normal special attack would be a good idea.

A possible split up of PVM and PVP toolset altogether would be a good idea.

Heals and defenses are still engineered to perform well in PVM. To compensate this, Aimed shot is the only viable option.

So, what does need a nerf first? The cause or the effect?

1+1=2?

[Gatester]

Obtena 3100 ar with a pretty good setup sucks for a prof with no heals, no debuffs, avg def and is realiant on perks to kill people.

In mass situations we aren't even considered a target because we are a meatshield that is better off kited and ignored rather than a threat that needs to be killed. In order to support others the best in mass pvp we have either been perking MR so our perks can actually land (sometimes), or we hotswap to AS using a supernova.

Both are stupid, and one of both of those is used by a majority of every single profession in AO except NTs to make up for inferior alternatives.

[Lupusceleri]

Statistics are facts. What you just posted is an opinion. Here's a handy guide to help you out:

http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/

Wow.. epic retort.

@Gatester: Enforcers aren't killed first in pvp because it takes a year to wear them down (unless you're soldier, or agent maybe). If you have something near you in pvp, that is hostile as well and that dies easier than an enforcer, you take that down first before you start hitting on the enforcer. As taking on two toons is generally not good for your health - killing the other guy before the enforcer is simply the easiest way to get rid of the second toon, even if you were already wailing away on the enforcer.

[Rktim]

Wow.. epic retort.

@Gatester: Enforcers aren't killed first in pvp because it takes a year to wear them down (unless you're soldier, or agent maybe). If you have something near you in pvp, that is hostile as well and that dies easier than an enforcer, you take that down first before you start hitting on the enforcer. As taking on two toons is generally not good for your health - killing the other guy before the enforcer is simply the easiest way to get rid of the second toon, even if you were already wailing away on the enforcer.

Same reason i go for the greens first, fast and easy kills and then i can concentrate on the yellows, greens might be easy to kill but you don't want to have them hanging around after AMS goes down xD

Back on topic tho, its fairly obvious that SOMETHING needs to happen to AS, the way i see it AO PvP is FUBAR, a tangle of caps and toolsets that aint really that compatible, imo lots of nerfing needs to be done, and lots of boosting also at then, and even some new code is needed...

(If you nerf AS you have to nerf Evades, if you nerf evades you have to nerf solider and enfo(?) AR)

[Castaras]

Enlighten me, what entitles Fixers and MAs better AS performance than say, Crats?

What says that Soldiers should have better AS performance than professions you didn't mention, in the light of having well performing weapons with FA/Burst?

Do tell.

MAs at least have green bow skill. They were originally intended to use fists + Bow, so if we go by FC logic of going by these outdated descriptors, MAs and Agents should have best AS. =P

[DrLithvium]

I would have to agree with Sterva on this. Nerf as and find other solutions for pvp .

[Redbar]

Def check on AS, plx. Damage calculation and cycles can stay as they are. This is the proper fix for onehander and supernova.

That way, no profs can be denied a fair fixing for pvp based on the "just equip an AS weapon" cop-out. (unfortunately, AS has to be nerfed before profs who are unfairly made to depend on it can be boosted -- otherwise you'd just have people whining about how OP this new balancing is when combined with AS).

[Perskules]

nerfing AS would make evade profs godmode

[Shareida]

nerfing AS would make evade profs godmode

Yes, therefor an AS nerf should come along with a new calculation model for evades, absorbs and heals.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

If you nerf AS the way I said in OP you wouldn't.

Just change the crit multiplier per prof. AS can ALWAYS hit, but, just wouldn't have such a drastic effect if your prof isn't as "skilled"

Agent x10
MA trader x7
MP, fixer, soldier x5
everyone else x3

fixed.

[Perskules]

If you nerf AS the way I said in OP you wouldn't.

Just change the crit multiplier per prof. AS can ALWAYS hit, but, just wouldn't have such a drastic effect if your prof isn't as "skilled"

Agent x10
MA trader x7
MP, fixer, soldier x5
everyone else x3

fixed.

should be

agent 10x
mp,trader,solja 7x
fixer,ma 5x
rest 3x

[sultryvoltron]

should be

agent 10x
mp,trader,solja 7x
fixer,ma 5x
rest 3x

Debump for the Xan of Envy / ABC (or Craphander) combo. Soldiers should get 5x since they already have a realiable capping special. IMO at least.

[Ayria]

should be

agent 10x
mp,trader,solja 7x
fixer,ma 5x
rest 3x

Any particular reason, beyond that you are one, that you think Soldiers need good AS?

Or that MPs deserve it more then MA (of the two AS Bow users, the other being MP, MA is the one with the Bow buffs)?

I'm not seeing any logic or reasoning to your placement of professions which leads me to believe you ranked them according to personal interest, a very common trait on these forums.

I think Noobastanks layout was pretty smack on, I'll give my reasons why:

Agent: 10x (we all know why)

Trader, MA: 7x (Traders main damage is AS, MAs have support for it)

MP, Fixer, Soldier: 5x (MP and Fixer are support professions, they have other useful traits in combat; Soldiers, while artillery, have large damage as is from other sources more suited to their profession. Masters of ranged weapon and spewing bullets; not precision.)

Rest: 3x (Melee professions with little reason to need ranged weapons, Crats, Docs and Engi while being support and ranged like Fixer have damage from other sources (pets, DoT), other defenses (blockers, evades, heals) and lack the support that MPs have.

I miss anyone?

[Redbar]

nerfing AS would make evade profs godmode

I'm sure enough nemesis profs could offset that. For example, nerfing AS wouldn't affect the NT/fixer balance -- at least not in a positive way for the fixer. (and many soldiers already complain that 3 profs that can touch them in AMS is too many).

If you nerf AS the way I said in OP you wouldn't.

Just change the crit multiplier per prof. AS can ALWAYS hit, but, just wouldn't have such a drastic effect if your prof isn't as "skilled"

Agent x10
MA trader x7
MP, fixer, soldier x5
everyone else x3

fixed.

Prof specific effect like that gives me the vibe of the how-AR-over-1000-affects-damage-scaling "balancing" between profs from SL launch. It's not a good vibe. Should be skill based instead.

At least for trader, MP, and fixer on your list, I'd say they're prime candidates for the list of profs who "depend" on AS today, but really shouldn't have to. Tigress and Silverback mk 6 are (were?) just a way of papering over the real problems with a weak offensive toolset -- appease the shouting crowd and make them put away their torches and pitchforks, and maybe get back to the real problem later some time.

[Perskules]

agent 10x (all know why)

mp,trader,solja 7x (mp main damage is AS and its supported on items and perks) (solja is master of ranget weapons) (traders starts cry too much if they AS get nerfed)

fixer,ma 5x (MAs got lots damage anyways) (fixers dont deserve 2x capping special)
rest 3x

[Ayria]

(MAs got lots damage anyways)

Right cause Soldiers don't.

Soldiers have a **** load of damage, a lot more (due to being ranged in part) then MAs so if you want to put MAs down low because of their damage potential, Soldiers best be right beside them or lower.

As I said in my post, Soldiers may be masters of ranged weapons; that doesn't mean they are masters at all ranged weapons. Knowing how to hold a gun and spew bullets semi-accurately is a totally different skill set then knowing how to fire a single shot with precision. People don't become snipers/marksmens by learning how to unload a M16 magazine.

[Sterva]

I'm just going to accept all of the posts fighting about which profs and how AS should be nerfed as bumps in agreement that AS should be nerfed first, which is in fact, the only legitimate purpose of this thread.

Thanks!