Locking the Silverback

[Mmba]

Ok, so traders apparently get the silverback all to themself, as it is reported. (which, in and of itself is silly, since no other weapon in all of LE or AI are locked to a specific prof. yet for some reason this one is)
But what have the other profs got?

Engis got nothing with LE. No RE ofab. no grenade ofab. nothing for pvp.
Docs get screwed again with weapons with LE.
MPs didnt get much love with LE as far as i know.


Now i know theres nothing wrong with wanting to boost up the pvp gunrack of a specific prof, but make it fair to everybody else too, please.

(rant on docs) Finally something comes along that would be good for both pvp and pvm, that wouldnt require about 5m IP or gimp in other areas. I don't need this crap that docs have good heals and and dots and would be overpowered with a good weapon. Its crap - docs are one of the hardest professions to play with things constantly. Most of you profs who can tab+q /afk or gank... keepers, agents, enfs, soljas, MAs ... don't have all kinds of nanos they rely on.

ill tell ya, its hard to be a decent DD and healer at the same time as a doc. you can either DoT or heal - you can't do both at the same time.

I guess it would be too much to ask for a viable weapon for all of these support classes that doesn't make us gimp who we are to begin with? everybody else seems to have one now.
(/rant)

flame me all you want, but i gotta speak up for what i think is fair.

[Spart]

Well, from what Sil is saying they are gonna add weapons that they didnt add at release in 17.2, so have to wait a bit longer, but kinda sucks that you guys ahve to wait for a bit before you get better weapons

[Ober]

ill tell ya, its hard to be a decent DD and healer at the same time as a doc. you can either DoT or heal - you can't do both at the same time.

I'll have to comment on this, please bear with me :
You can:
*Get in a team with people who don't suck.
*Make a team with mixed abilities/profs that gives you 10 seconds to dot after ubt.
*Heal when dots have landed.

Besides that, i quite agree with your rant


My biggest objections against this "nerf" are:
*Silverback looks good, I want!
*It's a pain in the ass to swap around 10 pieces of buffing gear, 3-6 implants/symbs, and then equip the weapon usable for PvM/PvP. And then perhaps run around looking for buffs. Then again, it might be intended that docs are supposed to be able to swap around implants to suit their needs, who knows.
*Silverback won't increase doc pvp damage by a whole lot. Over time it will increase, yes, but still won't overpower our offense in any way. Silverback is only a decent, not good, pvm weapon for docs.

[Mmba]

wow, i figured i'd get flamed up and down immediately, you mean there are actually other sane people out there that see my point?

Silverback won't increase doc pvp damage by a whole lot. Over time it will increase, yes, but still won't overpower our offense in any way. Silverback is only a decent, not good, pvm weapon for docs.

It would make it definately better, but most would sacrifice their abilities in PvM to be a good PvPer. I don't know if it would make every doctor suddenly uber, but at least 1 decent weapon thats good for pvp and pvm might spark interest in more professions and <gasp> actually bring lots more popularity to the game; and keep customers.

[Zx9256]

It would make it definately better, but most would sacrifice their abilities in PvM to be a good PvPer.

Many\most profs have to do that. Why should docs get it any easier?

[Ninyah]

I think the question should be, why doesn't all/none have to sacrifice pvm for pvp?

[Doctorhyde]

Many\most profs have to do that. Why should docs get it any easier?

Most profs don't end up going to armor and weapons they have to spend 1-2 months of perk resets to get into. Period.

Keeper, Soldier, Fixer, MA, NT (heh), Shade, Enfo, Agent ... show me -one- of those profs at TL7 who can't swap their weapons (and in 80% or more cases, their armor too with some simple buffing)? In fact, most rely on that for additional alpha. The only thing those profs EVER have to sacrifice for PvM is their perk setups. And even they they do just fine (said after watching plenty of PvP oriented versions of these profs continue to get top 5 or 10 in pande raids).

BTW, Traders will be able to hotswap a QL300 Ofab w/out problem. I'm happy they got love. I just think its pretty silly they're the only ones. Its pretty obvious after seeing the NTs, Soldiers, Fixers and Traders whine that the way to get love is to just keep gritching.

Eng is maybe in the middle ground. Depends on their choice. But they can do quite alot more than the remaining and are just fine PvM with PvP gear.

So if the doc/crat/mp is -willing- to work that much harder just to get a "good" (not great, always 25-50 QLs lower than the afforementioned professions who can self them, and always without any of the massive alpha perks) pvp weapon. They sacrifice at least 50% of their PvM weapon damage by doing this (more in a solo situation where specials rule and against the harder mobs you don't get so much chance to DoT). And its permanent because they can't swap weapons.

And fwiw, this isn't specifically about me. I'd already made my call not to go back to full PvP shotgun. Fact is, FC announced the possibility too late for me, I had already started spending IP after the full IPR was used. I might have used a QL200 Ofab Silverback if it had been made available to me as an optional gun when not using the Arbalest. But I can still go with a 190ish REC if I choose to.

[Zx9256]

BTW, Traders will be able to hotswap a QL300 Ofab w/out problem.

Oh I can get on a ql 300 Silverback self no problem. What I can not do is get my mk6 Peregrine on without problem. And it's not even a 300, but a 275, and it requires me to first take of my ql 290 rarm (which requires twinking to get back on) to get the strenght to install an ext eye (requireing more twinking to get my control eye back on after) But, that was a choice I made, to try for more pvm damage and, more importantly, more shots per minute by dualing to increase chance of having LE procs running and to get more accumulator tics. My choice, no-one forced me, thus I am not going to complain about it.

[Aratink]

If they're going to lock it, then they should atleast allow all professions that can train shotgun mastery perks to use the shotgun.

[Ferg]

It's not locked on test as of yet, but changes happen :/

Edit: it is locked now, bastards

[Zx9256]

There are a great many weapons in this game which are profession locked yet other profs have full mastery of an attached perkline. It is not a novel concept.

Though, having just one of all the ofab weapons professionlocked does seem rather strange. If that was your point, I agree. The AS should only be available on an upgraded mk6, beyond the regular line. Am not sure that would make the ones that want to grab for themselves this much needed boon for a profession that needs it much more than they do any happier, but it would be more "streamlined"

[Doctorhyde]

Oh I can get on a ql 300 Silverback self no problem. What I can not do is get my mk6 Peregrine on without problem.

You can not self a QL300 Silverback as a doctor.

Can you equip it? Yes. But as a 220 trox (which has the most trickledown for shotgun), replacing R.Arm, Waist and R.Hand (all choice support slots) with QL300 implants, putting on QL300 Supple (CC/CSS), doing all LE research, perking Champion Light Infantry, and putting on miscellaneous shotgun buffing items you end up with around 1950 shotgun.

Gimps your symbs, gimps your armor (+HP, you're a doc).

You can keep it out of OE with all that, but you can't self that gun. Even with a 153 wrangle you're going to be hurting trying to get it on, it will require high level towers that many don't have. Before LE a QL300 Kyr was only feasible on a trox and LE only gave you +75. And if you decide not to gimp your symbs/armor, you'll need a 275 or 250 to keep it out of OE self.

EDIT: My bad, I thought Zx was saying a doc could self a 300. But ... Zx ... you just prove my point then. You can choose to change weapons on demand for PvP/PvM. A Doctor can not. The rest of what you say is just such clueless mess its scary.


Remember, the QL300 Ofab gear is 2200 req, not 2K.

I agree, the peregrine should be doctor equippable, but show me how you're going to self a 300 Silverback. I admit to not having -redone- the math, but I crunched alot of shotgun numbers back when I was a shotgun user. And that's still not apples to apples even if you can. We're talking about other profs that at 220 can self their weapons -without- full AI armor, gimped symbs and perk resets. All I'm saying is if a toon is -willing- to go through all of that, they shouldn't get locked out of it because of a prof-lock.

[Zx9256]

Ah, wouldn't really know what doctors can and can't equip. My point was just that I'm not complaining about having some difficulty with a weapon I myself have chosen to go for. Yet I keep hearing about docs who are unsatisfied with the weapon setup they themselves have chosen (presumeably because it seems the most favourable), and how they want one gun to use both for pvm and pvp. Now what I can not fathom is why docs should get that advantage when so many other profs, including traders mind you, would have to change weapons inbetween IF they want to maximize both pvp and pvm damage for their profession. And yes that changing of guns comes much easier for a soldier than for a trader or let alone a doc. But that is as it should be, different professions have different strenghts. Some have stronger strenghts than others, but that is a whole other discussion.

If docs want to use one weapontype for both pvp and pvm, that is within your power to choose.

[Louderer789]

Ok, so traders apparently get the silverback all to themself, as it is reported. (which, in and of itself is silly, since no other weapon in all of LE or AI are locked to a specific prof. yet for some reason this one is)

Salabim.
Wyrm.
Amplified Kyr Carbine.
Silenced Kyr Rifle.

The argument that a silverback is the savior of docs in pvm is just false, its crap for pvm. If you want to simulate it go throw on a ql225 kyr shotgun its basically the same, and what do you know you can swap on ithaca for pvp without any other weaponlines by using this. Sure you'll need a wrangle to get it back on but, welcome to support profs.

If you understand AS mechanics you understand why this gun is so good, you also would understand why a ql200 is almost as powerful as a ql300 in terms of potential and therefore should not be open to everyone.

[Alternity]

If they're going to lock it, then they should atleast allow all professions that can train shotgun mastery perks to use the shotgun.

*nods*

[Bereavement]

This gun should not be locked from soldiers as we have buffs, perks for shotgun and are masters of all ranged weapons.

[Zx9256]

Guess you'll start campaigning for all these too then, with that argument. Prof-locked weapons is nothing new, even locked from profs that have supporting perks/nanos/items.

[Bereavement]

sure i wouldn't mind them ;p I just want to be able to have an excuse to use my swiss cheese buff

[Zx9256]

Tell you what, I'll strike you a deal: if traders can have the same post 1k AR damage template as soldiers, soldiers can have an AS'd Silverback

No that was a joke, not to be used as proof of traders being cwazy Just saying, just because a prof could have used a weapon effectively, doesn't necessarily mean they should get it. Perhaps even especially because some profs could use this effectively they shouldn't get it. As they'd be too effective overall.

[Gwenneth]

There's one simple reason most shotties get locked to traders, and that is our AR template.

If the SSSS/Grand Wyrm was unlocked, what kind of silly damage/crits could a soldier do with it?
Or a Sacrosanct Turnspirit Shottie for that matter?
Insane damage spans, but when it hits, it hurts, even for a trader, and we have caster AR over 1K (in effect, for AR over 1K: [[AR-1000]/12])

The shotties have been buffed alot since original AO, and have some of the highest max damages in the game, and if soldiers could get their hands on that... Well, that'd make things interesting for a while, at least in PvM.

The Silverback is another story tho, it's essentially crap, no trader out there will use it.

Please take away the AS from it again, totally unnecesary.
FC caved in to the whines from the traders, and now all profs will do the same, that's the way the world works.

Gwen