Friday with Means - July 3rd, 2009 - German Server and AO Learning Curve

[Obtena]

It's bad design to just link to a forum instead of providing the information inside the game.

OFC it is, but it's infintely cheaper in terms of development and less rigid than, for example, some text on how to make implants from an in-game book. IMO, some of the player information assembled in these forums is way more detailed and useful than anything FC could put ingame, one reason being format. It's also relevant to say you would have to know where to find the information ingame to benefit from it. Advertising the AO forums ingame is easy .... billboards, global messaging system, the greeters. They could implement a free items booth that gives you some piece of junk item to sell for 100 creds and spams you with a message ...

[Siahanor]

Really, the best resource for newbies is these forums. Any question can be asked about anything and most information is searchable and in here somewhere or a link at least is available. IMO, the only thing needed is for FC to link these forums address to certain visible places in the game. Once I discovered these forums, I was set free.

Most newbies start out as fr00bs. Care to explain how they're going to post here to ask questions?

[Hellsranger]

Great post, hellsranger. I actually put points into swimming when I started this game because it was suggested in the tips at the time.

If you use ql10 profession specific implants with lower requirements you save a little work for FC. Sell them in boxes, just like the nanos on the islands.

I like the idea of a set of questable imps for each prof, even if they were a ql5 set to get players started. Perhaps an extension of the "Bronto Buger" quest could even supply a set of ql10's? More items to buy are maybe a bit much for newb island. Yes its easy enough to make creds there if you know what you are doing, but lets face, most n00bs don't - thats why they're n00bs!

My first toon was a looooong time ago, but I can clearly remember some of the dumb things I did with it. I must have rerolled it 4 times before I really got a handle on the game. Hellsranger Mk1/2/3 had IP heavily invested in tradeskills to make myself stuff like carb armor and so on, not realising that I could get other players to do that for me. It wasn't until i got ninja invited to an org I got a lot of exposure to more experienced players and constant advise. That triggered reroll 4

Why did I do this? I kept finding stuff and shouting around "Whats this for?" and "Is this worth anything?". Some guy, who was probably just trying to help, suggested I start plugging stuff into the TS interface. I did that, started finding things that went together and get messages about skills required, so I spent IP on them. Next thing I know I'm the gimpest fixer you've ever heard of.

Simplifying the learning curve a little doesn't destroy the game or make for lazier/stupider players. It makes for more players with a better understanding of the game.

Incidentally, AO has relied a lot on player involvement to solve issues with game design and mechanics. ARK's assist by providing a free support resource, and the "community" argument that experienced players should help n00bs again shifts the responsibility away from the game designer and onto the playerbase.

I have nothing against this, but if we have (as some rumour suggests) at most 3k regular and casual players, and we attract another 10k or more, this community management model is not going to work. Even if FC offered me 6 months of free subscription to hand hold n00bs for a month after a major relaunch, I couldn't possibly do nothing but train n00bs for that time and still keep my sanity.

The changes suggested here and elsewhere can all assist new players get upto speed on the game mechanics and have fun doing it instead of the current aimless wandering and accidental discovery they get now.

[Obtena]

Most newbies start out as fr00bs. Care to explain how they're going to post here to ask questions?

There is an AO froobs forum.

[Zacharyas]

I'm highly unsatisfied with the interpretations and consequences of the DNW vote. It's totally okay if you let people who want to stay on DNW have their wish and don't force them to move/transfer/merge. I'm happy for them that they can enjoy the freedom to play in the environment they wish.

On the other hand, those that really want to switch to a more populated server, are denied the option to do so. We get chained to an empty server, and while group a gets their wish, group b doesn't. Moreover, group b has to stay on a server just so group a can play.

I would never force those that want to stay to leave, but why am I being forced to stay if I want to leave ? Why is it not the same rights for everyone ? As already discussed, starting all over fresh and new is pretty hard, even if you have all expansions and 6 years of AO experience. No friends, no org, no buffing items, no creds for ql 20 implants. So starting all over again from scratch is hardly anything I can do. So I will have to stay on an empty server, where I can't enjoy the game much more. I feel like being forced to cancel, even though that is not the case. But I am definately forced to play in an environment I enjoyed six years ago, but that has changed so much that I cannot enjoy it nowadays.

Please let those who really want to leave change servers. I would even agree on getting a single max lvl char of my choice, so I can max MA and do lvl 200 missions for some creds to buy implants, and work my way up from there.

[Ebondevil]

I'm highly unsatisfied with the interpretations and consequences of the DNW vote. It's totally okay if you let people who want to stay on DNW have their wish and don't force them to move/transfer/merge. I'm happy for them that they can enjoy the freedom to play in the environment they wish.

On the other hand, those that really want to switch to a more populated server, are denied the option to do so. We get chained to an empty server, and while group a gets their wish, group b doesn't. Moreover, group b has to stay on a server just so group a can play.

I would never force those that want to stay to leave, but why am I being forced to stay if I want to leave ? Why is it not the same rights for everyone ? As already discussed, starting all over fresh and new is pretty hard, even if you have all expansions and 6 years of AO experience. No friends, no org, no buffing items, no creds for ql 20 implants. So starting all over again from scratch is hardly anything I can do. So I will have to stay on an empty server, where I can't enjoy the game much more. I feel like being forced to cancel, even though that is not the case. But I am definately forced to play in an environment I enjoyed six years ago, but that has changed so much that I cannot enjoy it nowadays.

Please let those who really want to leave change servers. I would even agree on getting a single max lvl char of my choice, so I can max MA and do lvl 200 missions for some creds to buy implants, and work my way up from there.

I can understand your arguments for this, I really can, however, as far as I can tell, from Fun-Com's Perspective, they want to revitalise the server, which is really the best solution all round because not only does it mean that the people who want to stay get to stay, but the people who want to leave don't have the reason to leave any more, which in the long run benefits everyon, both those wishing to stay and those wishing to leave.

If Fun-Com does perform a server merge then they annoy the majority of people on DNW, which is bad from their perspective.

If Fun-Com goes to all the extra effort to let some people leave, then again the majority of people will be suffering, not only will people end up getting split across both the other servers, loosing friends and the like, but those that do want to remain on DNW are in an even worse condition than they are now, all the more signing the death warrant for the Server, some people will bail out, only to be followed by more until the server is completely dead and will have to be shut down, which again goes against what the majority of people in the survey seem to want.

The decision may not be the most popular, but based on the information Fun-Com has, I can't fault them for it, I personally would much rather see DNW recover and become healthy again, on principle, than see it suffer a slow and painful death as Fun-Com would be supporting and actively helping to bleed the server dry by allowing the character transfer.

In the short term it may not be a the best received choice from some people, but in the long term I think it is really the best option for the server, and for the people who play on it.

If people really want to leave, then they can always roll new toons on the other servers, it will be more time and effort for them, but that also has the advantage that DNW will still be there when it recovers and if you decide to go back, you will also still have your characters there.

[Seinstheorie]

I think the real problem about the survey is:
53% happy, which is ok
lets say 1/3 not so happy. Quite a bunch of those will now freeze their accounts + a high number of people using the 30 day free AO. So the active population will decrease even more.
If a new survey with the same question would be started now, the result would be the same. For those people left the game cause being frustrated by sinking numbers of players a certain %tage of the former happy people would now be unhappy with the situation. But it still wouldn't be the majority or perhaps about 50% i would guess (depending on the interval of time elapsed).
The reason is quite simple: You only play a game if you like it how it is at the moment.
What such a survey does not show is the high amount of people who quit before cause of a lack of other players.
It makes me sad to see people like nitr0 frustrated. Their frustration only shows that they really like AO, but the circumstances makes it impossible for them to enjoy it nowadays... (and btw he's not the only one feeling that way, but one of the few who actually posts it here as a kind of feedback. Most people simply leave)
I know its hard for people playing on rk1/2 to imagine the situation on rk3. So let me give you a view examples: Today i was a bit bored, so i started systematic counting players in old athen. I went evry location where people normally hang out (including shops and so on). I counted 28 characters. Mule chars and obiously afk people included. That was during primetime... and clan is actually the strongest faction on dnw.
Since friday I only had one (!) round on midbs (150-174) started, also I often waited. About 8 rounds ended after 1 minute cause only 2-3 people on each side actually joined.
When levling my last toon (which i did during holidays) i found my first team with level 100+ (was before the 30 day free special). After reaching that level it was slightly better. But I often just did not find a single person for such casual tasks as getting xp or aixp.
Since the result of the survey became revealed and the 30dayfrees are expiring the lack of people is even more visable.
Populating the server with new guys won't work well. It's an old game (which is for most people a reason not to start) and for dnw as a additional fact that is to be concerned: You want to play a mmorpg and all you get (which is the impression one will have) is a single player rpg with a few player controlled npcs (higher level guys you cannot team with^^)

I hope you see the dilemma of rk3

Also a little criticism about the survey: I think many people voted the way they did cause of a lack of information. What would have happend to your names/citys/towers and so on? No one likes to buy a pig in a poke (if you know what i mean)

Thats's my little statement to the current situation and pls excuse my bad english, i'm just a german^^

edit: http://www.cruisefix.de/AO/pics/DNWF.jpg
(just saw it in the german forum, rofl^^)

[Hellsranger]

Also a little criticism about the survey: I think many people voted the way they did cause of a lack of information. What would have happend to your names/citys/towers and so on? No one likes to buy a pig in a poke (if you know what i mean)

Reminds me of the "Republic" referendum we had here in Australia a few years ago. Every survey done in the last 15-20 years says >80% of Australians want to break with the british commonwealth.

So the government does a vote on it, but instead of saying "Do we become a republic?" they offer us to stay as a deomocratic monarchy, or choose from 3 other ridiculous models that noone would wish on their country.

The result, no republic.

Perhaps if the questionnaire was worded "All things being equal, and assuming you suffered no loss of level, items, credits or experience, would you want to merge with another server?" the result would have been different

[PhoenixOfAges]

Learning Curve and Helping Newbies:
I made a topic in the suggestions forum a ways back somewhat related to the helping new players and learning curve thing. That was to update /help and make people more aware of it. Back when we had the entry hall or whatever it was called the first NPC you ran into you also couldn't get past without it opening a chat window where it told you about /help and other things. Last I looked none of the newbie island NPCs or those in the SL starter area tell you about it.

While it could stand to be updated it does have answers to many common questions like "how do I add someone to my friends list?" as well as other useful info. AO isn't really hard/complex, it's just involved or has a lot to it. Some handy in game help function so you could look things up would help a lot.

Another thing that helps are personal help files. I've added LOTS of those on many topics and refer to them often to look things up. Not everyone may want to do that (or even knows what I'm talking about) but an updated /help could do away with the need for a fair bit of that.

What they could add though is a personal log book of sorts. It could allow you to add and edit entries for things you want to record for later and a spot to jot basic notes down. This could be recorded in your account pref folder so each char in the account sees it.




Think I saw someone mention how they should add a tip of the day thing to AO. It already has one actually. Type in "/TipOfTheDay" and there you go. It's just been disabled by default by the looks of it but I seem to remember an option to enable/disable receiving a tip of the day on log in. Can't see it now so I guess you can only see it by typing that in anymore. Could always add that back and add some more tips.


Newbie Island:

• Those floating and spinning "? Shift+Left Click" things in backyards should be added to newbie island. Put them above the doctor, above the shop terminal and some other things.
• Bring back the nurse NPC that opens chat with you as soon as you arrive on the island and directs you to talk to the doctor. She could also tells you basic things like how to open chat with NPCs and about /help.
• Newbie island should include an insurance (just for show one) and mission terminal like in the backyards. There's a big door in the one end of the island already that could be used as the mission entrance.
• More info NPCs would be good.
• Adding a way on to the alien ship on newbie island as Means mentioned might/would be worked on in the past would be nice.
• Then how about adding some ammo for the ranged alien weapons and some way to upgrade them, perhaps by getting types on the alien ship.

Clearing out some of the clutter from the drop tables would be good. Mostly just toss all the weapon trade skill items that you can buy from shop terminals from QL 1-200 for very little creds anyhow.

Increase RK XP!!

You can go fairly well on RK, you just shouldn't be hunting things around or below your lvl. You just can't compare SL and RK XP, the higher XP in SL is suppose to be part of the benefit in a pay account.

The only real problem with fr00b leveling is around lvl 150-160+ when things dry up more and you'd be sick of just Inner Sanctum and missions all the time. Some new high lvl RK instance would be good.



Early lvl RK creds could be improved some here and there though. In the past that doll mission from the kid by the outside Newland Bronto Burger was good as the lanterns you got made good shop food. Then FC dropped their shop sale value to about 200 creds.







German Server:
The things that worry people about the whole server merger topic that is always coming up again and again in the suggestions forum are char names, cities and tower fields. Due to those problems while people would generally want a more active server (always nice to be on your own when camping a spawn though) they at the same time don't want to risk losing such things.

Also it's not surprising people would rather stay on a German speaking server than move to a largely English speaking one. Especially if they don't understand English very well. Although if much of the text such as NPC chatter is in English anyhow the only real problem would be the prior ones mentioned relating to the server merger concept.

If some ways of avoiding those problems were presented and the survey repeated more would likely opt to move to another server.

[PhoenixOfAges]

Saw someone mention removing a lot of weapons and focusing on those - 000 weapons they added a ways back. Those - 000 weapons aren't really all that great and there generally are better options. Some may even be worse than the weapon being "improved" actually. Back when they first added them and people looked them over I seem to remember the general consensus being they're not even good for fr00bs. Part of the problem being the base weapon sets the end weapon QL, those all stop at QL 200. Might be better if they could go higher but then fr00bs could have a hard time getting that much skill.

There is an AO froobs forum.

AO fr00bs is an independent site as far as I know. As such you could then just as easily rhyme off other places that have an AO forum like AO Universe, MMORPG.com or others. Even though you could expect some help there they aren't as active as this AO forums.

I would suggest putting some of the more useful RK weapons into these shops permanently, such as:

• SOL Fire Executioner
• (Sharpened) Kinetic Axe
• Gripo-Com AKR 1K20 (and 1K21)
• The Original Electronicum
• FDA Caterwaul 913
• SOL K-91
• Division 9 Plasmaprojector
• Seburo C-99a
• Guard of the Gentleman (currently buyable in SL gardens, but no SL req)
• Vektor ND
• S.A. Home Defender
• Mausser Particle Streamer
• OT Kerans Automatic Grinner
• Support Beam
• Murder Maul (currently SL loot, but no SL req)

Some of those can be rolled, some are already in shops (Vektor ND and S.A. Home Defender, perhaps others), others are boss loot and some are even good for pay chars. Then those nodrop SL weapons with no SL req tag never needed that as they only dropped in SL.

Helping new players doesn't mean handing things over to them with ease. It means showing them how and where to go and other such things. The better stuff should be harder to get.

Revamp Cyborg Barracks so players have somewhere to go after ToTW:

There's foremans/biomare. I've taken my own lvl 45 or so fr00b chars in to lvl and could do nicely, even solo. A team of lvl 60 or so lesser equipped fr00bs should do fine.

Pick one 3rd party built PlanetMap, and put it in AO by default:

The difference is that AoRK and AoSL are still being improved over time, Dovve is not. If they stick in either they'd be expected to continue replacing it as new ones are made. CSP and Sphere seem like ended projects so either of those would work better for them in that regards. People can always get the "Atlas of __" ones on their own.

On the topic of PlanetMap, again, if your map files can't be found automatically let AO select the default map: currently you have to type /setoption PlanetMapIndexFile normal/PlanetMapIndexNormal.txt and /setoption ShadowlandMapIndexFile Shadowlands/ShadowlandsMap.txt to reset your maps. There is no way newbies would know this!

Newbies wouldn't run into that as they'd be using the default maps included in the install. Then you only deal with that if you reinstall AO but don't stick the third party maps back in.

[Tradeforse]

at the bottom of the post means, you mentioned the engine, is there any chance of new footage and/or screenies you would be willing to share in the near future?

[Obtena]

AO fr00bs is an independent site as far as I know. As such you could then just as easily rhyme off other places that have an AO forum like AO Universe, MMORPG.com or others. Even though you could expect some help there they aren't as active as this AO forums.

Yeah, but it's open to froobs is the point, AO forums isn't. I already suggested linking the AO forums in a previous post. Someone made the point that froobs don't access it so therefore ... AO froobs. I mean, you could advertise any website that has the appropriate information. The point being ... the forums are much more hlepful than a paragraph of ingame text.

[Mastablasta]

OFC it is, but it's infintely cheaper in terms of development and less rigid than, for example, some text on how to make implants from an in-game book. IMO, some of the player information assembled in these forums is way more detailed and useful than anything FC could put ingame, one reason being format. It's also relevant to say you would have to know where to find the information ingame to benefit from it. Advertising the AO forums ingame is easy .... billboards, global messaging system, the greeters. They could implement a free items booth that gives you some piece of junk item to sell for 100 creds and spams you with a message ...

Indeed. And I'm not in favor of spamming in some 500 word text or whatever it is people are suggesting. However, making it in a useful and accessible way ingame is far better than linking to walls of text and incoherent bickering outside the game. As much as possible all info on the game should be in game.

[DocJones]

Heyas,

AO fr00bs is an independent site as far as I know. As such you could then just as easily rhyme off other places that have an AO forum like AO Universe, MMORPG.com or others. Even though you could expect some help there they aren't as active as this AO forums.

I may humbly disagree with you on that issue: aofroobs forum may be not that "active" in terms of users/posts amount, but there is far more valuable information for the new AO player in guides/tips etc. If you have a look at the official profession forums, it is hard to get useful information on the very low levels. There ARE profession specific guides, but many of them are quite outdated. This aint a problem on AOFroobs, since the froob extensions are very spare and the guides are much more stable.

Just my personal expirience

regards
/Z

[Mastablasta]

In Warhammer Online they disabled character generation on the servers they want to close and encourage people to transfer to different servers. AO should do the same thing.

[Sterva]

AO is a game for a specific kind of person. Removing this complexity would remove a large part of what makes AO the amazing game that it is.

I'm so thankful that you realize this.

First!!!

lawl

[Seinstheorie]

Btw. The players represented in the picture (posted in the edit of my former post) are some people who really like to play PVP content. What they and every other player with PVP ambitions on DNW see as a big problem: You always play against the same few people. As you can imagine thats a not really fullfilling experience. It's not like lets's see if this guy over there plays and equips his char good. No, you know: ah that is "fill in name", he/she is the one who plays his/her "fill in profession" appropriate, or just one of the other 10 guys normaly crossing your way...

Just an little explanation why this picture was created.

[Dooma]

Also a little criticism about the survey: I think many people voted the way they did cause of a lack of information. What would have happend to your names/citys/towers and so on? No one likes to buy a pig in a poke (if you know what i mean)

I think thats exactly why most ppl did vote the way they did... Everybody is in fear about loosing chars, credz or equip if they vote yes. Plus there are also some of those stubborn that think that it will get better someday. But it doesn't!

And even I would rather quit playing AO than loosing City, Bank, Credz. This would be like a fresh start. This i could do now aswell, but i really don't want to.
I also think that this fear has its reasons, because nearly everybody believes fc won't allow us to transfer (even if it where possible) with all our belongings as they are now. We are not as many players as on the other servers, but still if all of us are transfered with everything we have it would probably have a serious impact on the server we are transfered to.

But don't get me wrong i am not against the possible transfer, in fact i'd like to see it coming, but i just don't believe it will be under acceptable conditions.

[animaly]

Id be all for starting a new. Yes I put over a bil into twinking my NT and yes I spent way more time farming that I needed to. But so many players with alts they haven't logged in a year+. It would be nice to see the economy get more sane levels..especially for the new guys who have a hard time just farming 1 k let alone a few mil..

Yes most will not agree with me purely because they don't want to lose the stuff they farmed a few hours for but eh. You cannot make everyone happy.

Not saying I want this to happen but I surely wouldn't mind too much...tho I won't be too happy having to farm another Notu

-- Ani

[Mastablasta]

I think thats exactly why most ppl did vote the way they did... Everybody is in fear about loosing chars, credz or equip if they vote yes. Plus there are also some of those stubborn that think that it will get better someday. But it doesn't!

And even I would rather quit playing AO than loosing City, Bank, Credz. This would be like a fresh start. This i could do now aswell, but i really don't want to.
I also think that this fear has its reasons, because nearly everybody believes fc won't allow us to transfer (even if it where possible) with all our belongings as they are now. We are not as many players as on the other servers, but still if all of us are transfered with everything we have it would probably have a serious impact on the server we are transfered to.

But don't get me wrong i am not against the possible transfer, in fact i'd like to see it coming, but i just don't believe it will be under acceptable conditions.

Why would more junk have any impact on anything? Any idea how much of everything is lying around in banks on various toons across the dimensions?
Why would anyone take any items away? That's just a completely bizarre way of thinking.
Cities? Who really cares? Now that instanced cities are way more uber for most orgs anyway... selling stuff is still possible, just do it through forums like we always did :|