Friday with Means - September 3rd, 2010 - Battlestation changes

[Armus]

The BSs where created specifically to turn the toons of a vast majority of players into cannonfooder for the enjoyment of a few twinks. Making those twinks feel a bit of their own remedy is called justice. :P

/whine moar 101

So you don't think the hardcore pvp group will create even more powerful twink now to squish the medsuit+xp gun squad even easier?

[Lusos101]

So? Whats the difference for that squad you know so much about? They already dont give a dam about BS, its a chore they have to endure for almost all of them. No difference.


PS- The medsuit+xp gun squad you talk about consists mostly of PvP twinks in the making anyway. PvMers (as a general rule) play and equip their toons along the way a bit better. Not much, but still...

[Odov]

Rather than reiterate some of the problems others have brought up, I thought I'd just throw out an alternative (if you guys are open to them?) Seems like it's the 190-200 level range that's going to be problematic, so what about this instead:

20-60 (isn't there no BS now for 1-19?)
61-99
100-149
150-189
190-214
215-220

Yes, this does add one more battlestation between 150 and 220, so it's splitting the population more, but right now there are 4, so this still reduces the total number down to 3, and avoids the HHAB/GTH/LE nukes vs. 150 twinks issues.

I'd go for a slightly modified:

20-60
61-99
100-149
150-175
176-210
210-220

[Lheann]

Ok all, I have looked at Means post some more and it occurred to me they are talking about justing the range of the current existing BS's as fix. that fix does not include the creation of anymore BS's. So no matter what ranges we express here if they dont fit into the existing BS's then pretty much no chance of them getting added.

I would assume moving the sign up points to a single location is simple since they are going to do this. But as means recently stated cloning a PF into multiple level ranges has its problem. Since this should be on TestLive soon I suspect they have cloned and exported already.

In short this change feels like it was meant to be a surprise and that all the work to put it in place was done before anyone was told. Oh well. Still think a good deal of important info was discused in this thread. I have seen a lot names that general are not seen in FWM discussions and it was nice to see input from a much larger group of players than the normal 10 or 12.

[Crowena]

I have seen a lot names that general are not seen in FWM discussions and it was nice to see input from a much larger group of players than the normal 10 or 12.

They are just using their other accounts to make it look like that...

[Luziciona]

I promise to stop repeating my suggestion after this post:
...
100-139
140-164
165-189
...

According to player listings from auno.org, there should be enough people for this.
There are more than 2500 characters listed for each of those ranges...

Wide range = lowbies & new players chain-die = fewer players join = less action for everyone...

[RedWatr]

me too...

150-189 (but include lvl200 froobs)

190-214

215-220

[SoapTarder]

this is off topic, (so ignore it) but wanted to high five the devs (if they are still bothering to read this thread), as I've have been looking through the keeper nano documentation, and so far I'm liking what Im seeing (i feel like an idiot for not having seen it two months ago when it was posted). will be interesting to see if melee energy will indeed be a kick butt choice. I especially like the changes made to barrier of the righteous (two keepers in team will be nice mitigation. combine with soldier and will be retarded). the nerf to heal aura is bleh, but oh well, refects should make up for that. good stuff.

/on topic

hopefully we will get a response from devs as to whether bs changes are already in concrete, or whether they are considering what everyone has posted here, including concerns that are justified like op'd items that 200's may have access to that will give 200s roflstomping powers, etc... then again, it will take some time for 200 twinks to be made, and in the meantime, all the 164-174 twinks will give the 175-200 pvm, vp farming toons a long stretch of epeen-enlarging spankings, not to mention the totw pvm twinks getting pounded by 49 pvp twinks for a good while too. hey, its not all sour grapes people. the next while should be interesting for those who have twinks. and for the rest, business as usual getting those vp's, except having more access to vp's then before.

[Iwate8992]

The BSs were created specifically to turn the toons of a vast majority of players into cannon fodder for the enjoyment of a few twinks.

/whine moar 101

I have to say I think there's a WHOOOOOLE lot of truth in that statement.

Which brings me to a question that has occurred to me several times while reading people's comments and messages about BS.

The main argument that PVPers offer up is the great challenge you face in going up against other human-controlled toons and not a computer-controlled mob. This presupposes that it's twink against twink or, at least, that one player can't simply overpower the other. This requires you to get the absolute most out of your player in order to defeat your opponent. It's not an aspect of the game that interests me but I can understand that some people would enjoy it and that's fine.

I expect, however, that there are many other PVPers who prefer fights where they feel they have a solid advantage. They choose to "fight" against the uncompetitive PVMers, chain-killing the weaker players with impunity, happy that they don't have to put their own toons at risk. Judging by the kinds of comments I read in these forums, this sort of one-sided combat seems to go on quite a lot in BS.

I also expect that from time to time BS will run with, perhaps, 2 teams made up entirely of PVMers. Possibly, the 2 teams will be equally uncompetitive and, therefore, will prove to be competitive in their fights with each other. Still, I have to think that's pretty rare.

So, here's a question I would absolutely love for someone on the FC dev team to answer, but I won't hold my breath.

What part of BS was supposed to be fun for the PVMers? Or was that never a concern?

[PhoenixOfAges]

The BSs where created specifically to turn the toons of a vast majority of players into cannonfooder for the enjoyment of a few twinks. Making those twinks feel a bit of their own remedy is called justice. :P

/whine moar 101

Well from what I could tell at first they were made for that huge legion of rabid PvPers to go in for some PvP action. Then FC found out there were not nearly as many looking to join the BSs as they thought so turned it into a meat grinder by upping the VP reward there to insane levels time and time again. Now with these level ranges FC seems to be saying "to hell with it" and just want to increase the lvl ranges so it's easier for people to get their BS dailies done. Of course some more of those PvPers the BSs were made for are sure to say "to hell with it" as well and quit AO.

Everyone is different and will respond differently to the same thing to one degree or another. If these changes go through as listed some will adapt, some won't care either way as they either avoided BSs or just avoided AFKing when they do go, some will rage quit, some will toss their sub 220 twinks and stick with their 220s and so on.

-----------------------------------

What part of BS was supposed to be fun for the PVMers? Or was that never a concern?

That and who are BSs for, what is their true function and how do these changes provide a positive change are answers I'd want as well. I don't image they'll provide them though. Although you have to remember they said the new PvP zone would be appealing to PvMers on some level as well. So I'm guessing FC's AO staff are all masochists or something and think getting chain killed is great fun.

[Redbar]

PvP twinks roflstomping unfinished leveling characters who just want their VP for 1-2 items isn't really affected by the suggested range changes, though.. I expect a competent PvPer's 158 twink would kill any of my characters rolled back to the gear and skills they had at 200.

[quieter456]

215-220

this would totally run!





...if it were 2006

[Armus]

So? Whats the difference for that squad you know so much about? They already dont give a dam about BS, its a chore they have to endure for almost all of them. No difference....

The difference is as described already; Ql 300 combined/ofab/pande gear, ai30, le70, better nanos, more powerful perks.

Now, this means to the medsuit and since you mentioned them, the pvm group that they will have even less of a chance to actually do something.
But ofcourse this also affects the group you'd call NW twinks.
150-170 ISH. (Yes I'm perfectly aware that ideally you won't go over 164.) These toons will too be outgunned and plastered around the walls by the 200 twinks we will inevitably see.

This leaves us with a few options. Either level your tl5 so that you can have fun in bs again. Make a new toon entirely for the purpose of bs, or just don't do bs. Many will no doubt make the leap to 200 because hey.. playing a 164 vs 200's suck donkeyballs anyway. So there you go, part of the already almost too think tl5 community is gone.

This means less ppl for tl5 NW, which has been pretty much dead anyway since the ranges were already too wide, allowing 207 twinks witn 220 pockets. 200 groups with 220 pockets will totally dominate tl5 now.

So all in all. For anyone that actually cares about pvp fun inside tl5 bs our outside are facing an even worse drought now. Probably a year or two until FC realizes the ppl who voiced their opinions in this thread, the ones who actually are tl5 nw/pvp fans who know what they're talking about, were absolutely right.




PS- The medsuit+xp gun squad you talk about consists mostly of PvP twinks in the making anyway. PvMers (as a general rule) play and equip their toons along the way a bit better. Not much, but still...[/QUOTE]

[Lusos101]

Since you didnt get it the first time I give it another (last) try.

Why are the 150 to 174 and the 210 to 220 BSs still active while all others are dead? What is so special about them?

The answer is that at those levels there are a few factors that combine to make them active. Leveling begins to slow down at 150 and good armor for that level range becomes scarce. OFAB armor becomes very atractive. Twinks for S10 must be made at that level, not higher. Or in other words, there are enough PvM toons around to get the 150-174 BS started because they need to farm VPs for OFAB. And to farm those VP farmers we have the 174 twink. Its not a PvP toon, its a PvP title farming toon. Then we have the twink killers and the twinkiller avoiding twinks for NW, blablabla. But all those are dependant on BS running at those levels too.

Any of those PvP twinks can easily kill any leveling toon (and ofc any unfinished PvP toon). As said by many before, they will most likely be able to kill even level 200 leveling toons. This means that for a PvM oriented toon there is no diference in gameplay, its either run and try to 4 cap, mech up or diediedie. As for the PvP toons we will certainly see a few adjustments made. The title farmers will become level 200, the 207 twink killers will become unnecessary and the Tl5s will adjust accordingly. Or whateva...

Is a level 200 PvP twink much more powerful then a level 174? Most likely yes. Will it have any influence on the vast majority of toons who use the BSs? Not really. Do I feel sorry for those who invested a large amount of time and virtual money to be able to spawncamp my leveling toons?

[Darkirbiska1]

This leaves us with a few options. Either level your tl5 so that you can have fun in bs again. Make a new toon entirely for the purpose of bs, or just don't do bs. Many will no doubt make the leap to 200 because hey.. playing a 164 vs 200's suck donkeyballs anyway. So there you go, part of the already almost too think tl5 community is gone.

This means less ppl for tl5 NW, which has been pretty much dead anyway since the ranges were already too wide, allowing 207 twinks witn 220 pockets. 200 groups with 220 pockets will totally dominate tl5 now.

So all in all. For anyone that actually cares about pvp fun inside tl5 bs our outside are facing an even worse drought now. Probably a year or two until FC realizes the ppl who voiced their opinions in this thread, the ones who actually are tl5 nw/pvp fans who know what they're talking about, were absolutely right.



PS- The medsuit+xp gun squad you talk about consists mostly of PvP twinks in the making anyway. PvMers (as a general rule) play and equip their toons along the way a bit better. Not much, but still...

TL5 NW sucks now anyway, every tl5 is about who brings more tl7...
Well, I hope Funcom won't remove tl1-5 NW fields at least as suggested your friends.

[Nevo-RK3]

I'd go for a slightly modified:

20-60
61-99
100-149
150-175
176-210
210-220

I like this best from all suggestions!

[Armus]

TL5 NW sucks now anyway, every tl5 is about who brings more tl7...
Well, I hope Funcom won't remove tl1-5 NW fields at least as suggested your friends.

I have a hard time believing that any of my friends would've suggested that.

[Molotoff]

me too...

150-189 (but include lvl200 froobs)

190-214

215-220

Why 190-214 ?

As many have said, yes, there is quite a difference between a level 200 and a level 150, but nowhere near as bad as between a 190 and a 214. 14 shadowlevels, i.e 25*14=350 in main skills, access to top perks of all perklines, level locked dreadloch items, albtraum and lox stuff. Or nanos like BoL for advis.

[borriss]

What it comes down to is this: You have a large number of levels; 220... And rather low playerbase, so how can you expect it to be scaled like every 10 levels plays against each other sort of way... That's just not possible when the number of active players area in the thousands, and spread between 220 levels.. :<

[Darkirbiska1]

I have a hard time believing that any of my friends would've suggested that.

Masta suggested it and Solox bumps it, but Solox didn't get that Masta want remove all fields below ql 175.here