Respawn time on Smuggler's Den mantis mobs

[PhoenixOfAges]

Putting a non-killable NPC as a target would solve the congestion problem, but it would also nullify the advantage we just got with the multi-stage missions.

As I said to Gatester in that post, it wouldn't. All they would have to do is send you to do this here, that there and so forth. It'd be basically the same as mobs in dungeons are generally set in certain areas. It just means you don't need to wait for the mobs to spawn. If they're there, kill them or calm them, if not then walk up and do whatever. Like the cargo daily mission in smugg's already there could be a can not be in combat requirement to use/do the task so no charging around clicking on the items.

Also, missions where you have to get past mobs to a target put CC profs at a huge advantage; they can mezz or snare their way to the target in a matter of minutes, even at low levels, while profs without CC tools have to take the slow way of killing everything in between and risking death.

Well right now it's even easier as you can team a 220 and have them kill for you while you stand at the front door. You get credited for each kill and still get the full reward even though you're no near the team range of a 220. With the cargo daily we have now and other return item daily missions the items are only unique, not nodrop or nodrop unique. So your char never needs to even leave the mission HQ, just get the item with a higher lvl char and pass it over. At least with my suggestion you do actually need to take the char over to someplace to do something.

[Gatester]

I timed the three Mantis Diggers in the entrance of Smuggler's Den and it took exactly 25 minutes for all three to respawn. Maybe that is not excessive, maybe that long is good for preventing whatever problems would supposedly happen from a 10 minute respawn, like the problems associated with doing a daily quickly.

[PhoenixOfAges]

Also, missions where you have to get past mobs to a target put CC profs at a huge advantage; they can mezz or snare their way to the target in a matter of minutes, even at low levels, while profs without CC tools have to take the slow way of killing everything in between and risking death.

Another thing about this is that chars with CC have a significant advantage when doing kill missions too. The mobs are all packed in a fairly small area, social and in the case of smugglers not aggressive so to pull them you need to attack one which can bring a lot of agg down on you. With CC tools the kill missions are a lot easier and with those even roots and snares will help, especially with melee mobs.

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I timed the three Mantis Diggers in the entrance of Smuggler's Den and it took exactly 25 minutes for all three to respawn. Maybe that is not excessive, maybe that long is good for preventing whatever problems would supposedly happen from a 10 minute respawn, like the problems associated with doing a daily quickly.

And why exactly do you want to stand around doing nothing while you wait for mobs to spawn at all? So long as we're to kill certain mobs in a certain order in a small open area like a dungeon you will at some point have to wait around for spawns at least some of the time. Add more people to the game trying to do such tasks and you can expect to wait on spawns even more often.

As I keep saying reducing the spawn timers won't solve the problem of waiting for spawns, it will just reduce the time spent waiting for them to spawn. I don't know about you but I feel we have to do that more than enough already so would much prefer that they not add something else that involves spawn camping. Or in this case change what we have so we don't need to stand around waiting for mobs to spawn. Something like that can be functional no matter how many people we have trying to do the task at hand while kill missions in open areas can get more annoying with more people doing them.

[Gatester]

I'm willing to wait 10 minutes, not 25 minutes.

[PhoenixOfAges]

I'm willing to wait 10 minutes, not 25 minutes.

But why do you want to wait around at all is what I'm asking? As I keep saying with these kill type missions in a place like an open dungeon it is very likely you'll need to wait around for spawns. If you add more people trying to do it and other missions in the zone or other things in the zone the likelihood of spawn camping increases. You may need to do so for each step so let's say there's eight steps for maybe eighty minutes of nothing but waiting even with a ten minute spawn timer. If you had to fight for kills and need to wait for multiple spawn cycles that time increase. Sounds like fun.

Sitting on your ass doing nothing while waiting for a spawn is not a challenge, it's just a waste of time. It's dull and makes me want to leave, I'm sure others feel the same. We already need to spawn camp all sorts of mobs for drops or what not so I see no reason why they must add more of that when there are ways of adjusting these missions to avoid spawn camping entirely. I also can't understand for the life of me why anyone would be opposed to that as you are.

[Gatester]

If the respawn time is shorter, there is a much higher chance of the mobs actually being spawned when you arrive, hence no waiting at all. You reduce the likelihood of waiting enough that a thread such as this would not exist.

The fact is Pheonix, that these dailies are getting us to explore the existing RK, not ignoring them as they have been for years now. It is not a bad thing to send us into subway, smugglers, foremans or out in playfields that are hardly used for anything other than tower wars. There is also the aspect of seeing other people and encountering a player aspect in pvm that is generally only forced in AO's late raids. If we isolated all the dailies into instances then you take away from one of the benefits of them. If we start removing dailies because people face some inconvenience then we also have a chance of making them limited and boring. When we have more dailies, there is a good chance that people will not be frequenting smuggler's often enough for the issue to persist much, but it will still happen as long as the respawn is so extensive.



And just to clarify, this problem has not occured in the Subway or Crypt of Home daily for me, yet in smuggler's I have been waiting almost every other time and I have done this daily at least a dozen times. 25 minutes is simply too long, there is no reason for it to be such a way.

[erozc]

Agree with Gatester. Too much instancing makes the game feel lonely. I've been thrilled to find people and even teammates in Smuggler's Den. We have existing playfields that are barren, so reusing them for new content is a really good move, too.

[PhoenixOfAges]

If the respawn time is shorter, there is a much higher chance of the mobs actually being spawned when you arrive, hence no waiting at all. You reduce the likelihood of waiting enough that a thread such as this would not exist.

If there aren't that many people doing it and only reduces waiting, not removes waiting. As I keep saying if you add more people then it will increase the likelihood of waiting around.

You can't build content around the idea that the game does not have all that many people in it. If you do and it manages to get more people all that content will be a mess. It needs to work regardless of how many people the game has.

The fact is Pheonix, that these dailies are getting us to explore the existing RK, not ignoring them as they have been for years now. ...

Would you try and READ what I've said for a change before responding. Been going in circles as you have just predetermined what I wrote without ever actually reading it. If you spent a moment to read it for a change we might get somewhere for once.

Again, I never said to flat out remove these dailies, I said change them. Also I didn't say instance it or only send us to instanced areas I said make it so why they send us to these open dungeons is not to kill X number of certain mobs but some other task. We'd still be sent to the zone, still have people exploring more and going to more places, the task would just be less frustrating regardless of how many are there trying to do it.

If we are sent to do some other task that takes us ever deeper into the dungeon that does not relate to killing certain mobs a certain number of times there would be no waiting, ever. There would be no waiting if only one person is in there doing it, there'd be no waiting if the zone was full of people doing it or other tasks. There'd just be no waiting on being able to do the task at all, you'd be able to just trudge ahead and do it.


Then you didn't see as much trouble in the other places not so much due to the spawn timers, but how long people will be sent in there. For the first 100 or so lvls you can lvl up at a fast rate and dailies give you at least one full lvl. The Subway locks at lvl 25 now so not all that many will be in there doing the daily as before long you're out of that lvl range plus there are other types of dailies sending you other places. Same with ToTW, CoH or other lvl locked dungeons.

Smugglers though has no lvl lock. Also there are at least four daily missions to smuggs that can span a lvl range from about lvl 100-199, you can also go for days without getting anything but smuggs missions. That's a long stretch and is where lvling starts to slow so more people will be sent there to do them more often. Furthermore the two to the smugger area take you through the area you do the low lvl mantis mission. So some would go to the smuggler area killing all the mantises on route as they have little other option which causes problems for those trying to do the low lvl mantis mission. As a result of all that it will see more congestion than other dungeons would. So of course you see more problems in smuggs than other places.

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Agree with Gatester. Too much instancing makes the game feel lonely. I've been thrilled to find people and even teammates in Smuggler's Den. We have existing playfields that are barren, so reusing them for new content is a really good move, too.

And where did I ever say to instance it? He's only seeing what he wants to see, read what I said too.

[Gatester]

There is nothing wrong with waiting...it is the waiting far more than necessary that is terrible. If there are more players in the future, people will team so that is not much of an issue. They will be able to team because more people will be together and waiting together, and I have even teamed people that have shown up to do the same daily as well.

A maximum of 10 minutes is safe, and a reasonable wait time, 25 minutes is not.

Again, I never said to flat out remove these dailies, I said change them. Also I didn't say instance it or only send us to instanced areas I said make it so why they send us to these open dungeons is not to kill X number of certain mobs but some other task. We'd still be sent to the zone, still have people exploring more and going to more places, the task would just be less frustrating regardless of how many are there trying to do it.

If we are sent to do some other task that takes us ever deeper into the dungeon that does not relate to killing certain mobs a certain number of times there would be no waiting, ever. There would be no waiting if only one person is in there doing it, there'd be no waiting if the zone was full of people doing it or other tasks. There'd just be no waiting on being able to do the task at all, you'd be able to just trudge ahead and do it.

We wouldn't be waiting, we would be training. A majority of your complaint about my suggestion was that training would become more frequent, so you offer a suggestion that removes the task of clearing mobs as you go with one that has you pulling the mobs as you rush to your destination. The only way to avoid this is to instance it.

So what do you think is best? 10 minute respawn for kill mission mobs, tasks that only involve constant training to a destination (every task asside from kill missions), or instancing dungeons people are finally exploring with the gaming community. I honestly thought you were speaking of instancing as it is a reasonable suggestion because you were so against training.




I very may well be unable to understand what your actual intention is Pheonix, but I am sorry to say that I do not know of a way to have missions that do not involving killing mobs to clear a path that also do not involve training or instancing. If you do not have a reasonable arguement against the 10-minute respawn though you should honestly just make another thread for what you are suggesting (or you may even have one).

[PhoenixOfAges]

There is nothing wrong with waiting...it is the waiting far more than necessary that is terrible.

So sitting around doing nothing for X number of minutes waiting for mobs to spawn so some 220 main can insta kill them for their lowbie hiding around the corner or at the front door is the definition of good game design? That's what's happening now and nothing you suggest would change that so apparently that's the case to you.

If in doing the task I can spend more time waiting for spawns than doing something then no, it does not seem like a good thing. That's what can happen now, even if the spawn timers were reduced. Also how long is too long will differ depending on who you ask. Better for it to not be an issue at all.

If there are more players in the future, people will team so that is not much of an issue.

What colour is the sky in that nice little dream world you live in? There are those that will never want to team, they'll just do it for them and piss on everyone else. They dragged out their 220 main to do it for their alt so you should just go and do the same. Reality is reality and it's not always pretty. Things need to be made around the reality of the situation, not some ideal. Even it it's an actual group rather than a main killing for an alt some random unknown aren't always wanted by a group then what if the team is already full?

Also as I've said before not everyone there will be there for the same reason. Some will want to head off to another area to do a different daily. Although that takes them through the area you're working on and on route they kill the mobs you were going to need to kill resulting in more waiting for you, especially if they ran through at exactly the wrong time. Some will want to head to the mantis queen room to get eggs and on route kill the mobs you need to kill for your daily resulting in more waiting for you. As not everyone there is there for the same reason you are you can't expect everyone to team with you so that everything works out to some glorious ideal. Ideal expectations are almost never the realized reality.

A maximum of 10 minutes is safe, and a reasonable wait time, 25 minutes is not.

Except it wouldn't be ten minutes for the mission, it'd only be certain to be ten minutes per spawn. At times due to how things work out with others you'll need to wait for multiple ten minute cycles per mission, not just one. So is an hour or maybe more of nothing but waiting to do a mission a good idea? It could happen.

We wouldn't be waiting, we would be training. A majority of your complaint about my suggestion was that training would become more frequent, so you offer a suggestion that removes the task of clearing mobs as you go with one that has you pulling the mobs as you rush to your destination. The only way to avoid this is to instance it.

Training was only one part of it, you again only saw what you wanted to see and decided it was supposedly my main issue so you kept bringing it up and still are. A char can train to their goal when they only want kills located way over there through the area others are working through. These kill ones don't do anything to prevent or dissuade people from training around to their goal. Especially as they can use their 220 main to do the killing and largely short of the smuggers everything will agg you on sight no matter your lvl. That's why I brought training and the problems it causes up in the first place.

My suggestion was that you could have different tasks (retrieve a nodrop item, use an item on something, talk to a NPC, etc...) to preform at set locations. I also even said that like an existing one in smuggs they could require you to not be in combat to do them so you would need to clear or calm the mobs on route meaning no training to your goal.

As the goal would always be there and not related to the mobs themselves there would be no waiting for spawns. As you can't dash to the goal as you can't have agro to do it you can't train around either. Of course you never saw what was written as you apparently decided your way is the best way and anything else, no matter what it was must be crap so there's no reason to actually read it.

My main issue is that waiting is not a good use of time and these kill types don't and won't work all that smoothly. Especially in an open dungeon and even more so if more people are there then just as a capper some are trying to do different tasks in different parts of the zone. As there are alternatives which would be more effective they would be preferable to these set kill mission in an open dungeon.

So what do you think is best?

What would be best is if you read what was written before commenting on it. We're still stuck in the same loop as yet again you didn't read what was written. Either read what was written for a change and respond on what was written rather than your made up version of it or don't respond at all.

[Gatester]

You have to kill the mobs in order Pheonix, you are not going to run to the bantlings when you are waiting for the diggers at the start to respawn. There is also not much chain-waiting because all players have to kill in order, and therefore mobs will be respawning in order and within the same rate as they were killed.

Assuming players will not team is also ignorant. I already said that while waiting I teamed others who were doing the same, so this isolationist view point is not a universal issue.

The "220's are doing the dailies" complaint has absolutely nothing to do with taking BOSS mob respawns off of regular mobs in a dungeon. Go request a level-lock for smuggler's den rather than complaining to me that my request is unreasonable because everyone should suffer for people who use alts over intended levels.

My suggestion was that you could have different tasks (retrieve a nodrop item, use an item on something, talk to a NPC, etc...) to preform at set locations. I also even said that like an existing one in smuggs they could require you to not be in combat to do them so you would need to clear or calm the mobs on route meaning no training to your goal.

As the goal would always be there and not related to the mobs themselves there would be no waiting for spawns. As you can't dash to the goal as you can't have agro to do it you can't train around either. Of course you never saw what was written as you apparently decided your way is the best way and anything else, no matter what it was must be crap so there's no reason to actually read it.

If I want to get to the aztur throne room in totw, the cultists I train all the way from the entrance to the throne room do not follow me the entire way. However, every player in between me and the throne room where I find a nice column to hide will definately be smashed by my train, because my task was not to kill each mob on the way to the boss, but merely to get to my "goal" at the end.

Your suggestion is 100% promotion of training, and people will kite and train to no end to shake their mobs, not kill each mob on the path. Afterall, what is that poor person doing their daily mission in the middle of smuggler's going to do when another person has to train through them to get to their place?


This obsession with waiting is getting almost ridiculous pheonix, no one cares about 10 minutes so my advice to you is gather some patience. You also want to keep pushing this issue that I was not reading what you wanted, but you apparently did not read where I misunderstood you. This idea of forcing everyone to train each other by not requiring any mobs to be killed is not well thought out and I was not assuming you had such an ill-concieved suggestion.


I will ask once again, because unless you offer another option these will be the only three. Which of these is best:

Reduce spawn times to reduce the wait to reasonable levels.
Instance the dailies set in pre-existing dungeons.
Set non-kill points in various parts of dungeons that does not require killing but only losing aggro.

[PhoenixOfAges]

You have to kill the mobs in order Pheonix, you are not going to run to the bantlings when you are waiting for the diggers at the start to respawn. There is also not much chain-waiting because all players have to kill in order, and therefore mobs will be respawning in order and within the same rate as they were killed.

You're looking at it linearly, things came come from other directions as there are other people doing other things too, not just what you are. Since not everyone there is doing the same thing you wanted to do mobs can get killed out of order and spawn out of order. As more come through to do other things the spawn order can remain out of whack resulting in multiple waiting periods. While you're trying to kill the mobs for one stage someone else runs through to somewhere else and kills off the mobs you're trying to kill before you can to clear a path or trains ahead taking them along then kills them later. So now you need to wait to get the rest, of course that could happen again at further stages.

Then there will be those that don't want to team, they got the kills so you now need to wait. Another person/group catches up to your point in the mission chain and also doesn't want to team, gets enough of the the kills resulting in more waiting for you. So yes, it is very possible to have to wait at multiple points in the mission chain.

Assuming players will not team is also ignorant. I already said that while waiting I teamed others who were doing the same, so this isolationist view point is not a universal issue.

Assuming everyone will team is ignorant of you. Not everyone will team or will team with just any random person that comes along, that's a fact. I also added a case where a team is full so can't add more. So no, you can't expect everyone doing these tasks to happily join up with every random person that comes along, it won't happen.

The "220's are doing the dailies" complaint has absolutely nothing to do with taking BOSS mob respawns off of regular mobs in a dungeon.

What does a boss respawn timer have to do with regular mobs respawns?

Go request a level-lock for smuggler's den rather than complaining to me that my request is unreasonable because everyone should suffer for people who use alts over intended levels.

Oooooh, I see. So you're one of the people that zip around with their 220s doing these supposedly solo missions for their lowbie alt so would not need to worry about trains, being overwhelmed, odd agg and so forth. You also like how you can just park your char at the door which should be all nice and safe (especially if it's in sneak with high conceal) while you run about insta killing with your main. So the idea that you'd actually need to do some sort of task with the char that has the mission instead of something so absurdly easy which that quite lame mechanics flaw allows is bad. Right, gotcha.

If I want to get to the aztur throne room in totw, the cultists I train all the way from the entrance to the throne room do not follow me the entire way. However, every player in between me and the throne room where I find a nice column to hide will definately be smashed by my train, because my task was not to kill each mob on the way to the boss, but merely to get to my "goal" at the end.

Your suggestion is 100% promotion of training, and people will kite and train to no end to shake their mobs, not kill each mob on the path.

You can't read worth a damn, really, you can't. I said you can't hold agg and guess what, mobs these days will follow you forever. Also just as how now they have multiple stages these changed ones would as well. Since you can't hold agg to do it and there's multiple stages that may not be too far off from each other you can't go tearing around.

Now let's look at your oh so perfect current mission type. Well, it's kill type so having agg doesn't matter and you need to go off to the smuggs area. You see nothing wrong with doing it with your 220 main rather than doing these supposedly solo missions with the char that has it so you train to your destination locations causing the people caught between you to die. Although they were just stupid gimps doing it with the char that has the mission, not uber like you so who cares.

Then there's how people don't always know where mob type X is so off they go running here and running there looking for the type they need as an ever growing train collects behind them. You're 220 so the mobs can't hit you so no point wasting time killing them until you feel like it, sucks to be the lowbies stuck between here and there as you run from one to the other. Yeah, these kill ones completely avoid any form of training.

This obsession with waiting is getting almost ridiculous pheonix, no one cares about 10 minutes so my advice to you is gather some patience.

Your inability to read and understand is without bounds.

You also want to keep pushing this issue that I was not reading what you wanted, but you apparently did not read where I misunderstood you. This idea of forcing everyone to train each other by not requiring any mobs to be killed is not well thought out and I was not assuming you had such an ill-concieved suggestion.

I didn't, you just can't comprehend the obvious. Mikenche figured it out well and quickly enough, you can't seem to do the same. Looks like the failing is on you.

Reduce spawn times to reduce the wait to reasonable levels.
Instance the dailies set in pre-existing dungeons.
Set non-kill points in various parts of dungeons that does not require killing but only losing aggro.

I should just copy paste a segment of a dictionary or phone book in here. You're as likely to read that as anything else I write. Why respond to such a question that doesn't properly relate to the options presented?

[Edta]

Sorry, but I gave up reading all your long back and forth discussion for the last couple of posts. I have a few things to add myself though.

Firstly, the spawn time in Smuglers den is really what bothers me for this daily. The place being a maze, with a lot of mobs that agg even when grey is another factor for usually deleting this daily. The only mobs that are really absent are the ones that need killing, so a faster respawn would result in a huge increase in comfortably doing the daily, with only a very minor increase in danger levels.

Secondly, I would suggest that you do not need to kill x before y and y before z. This way you can easily team up with others doing the daily, while normally starting at the exact same time normally doesn't happen and either requires the first person waiting on the 2nd person or the 2nd person waiting for the respawns... The 2nd person can then go back to kill a few more x to finish the daily.

Thirdly, while your suggestion to replace it with something else is alright, I rather see more variety in the dailies. They still plan to add more dailies, so part of your suggestion can be used for those. Making the "kill mantisses" mission more like the "take stuff from the crate" mission would reduce the variety.

[Gatester]

You have drifted into flames, lying, and off-topic insults now Pheonix so I am not going to bother replying to your walls of text anymore. I will offer a simple and on-topic question for you.

Why do regular mobs need a TWENTY FIVE (25) Minute respawn?


Before any more of your fantasy land comments:

http://i777.photobucket.com/albums/y...r/scrn0280.png

Thats a 120 froob MP of mine, deep in smugglers near where those terrible bantlings are. If you cannot tell, that is a Stygian in my hands, I have 130 implants in, and I don't even the top heal pet, I have Altumus. My NCU is also that low because I am wearing a GCB from totw, I do not even have a 6-slot belt on or compiler at the time. Somehow....I survived all that wild and crazy aggro in there with one of those gimps that "people like me with 220's" train without a care for others.

[PhoenixOfAges]

Thirdly, while your suggestion to replace it with something else is alright, I rather see more variety in the dailies. They still plan to add more dailies, so part of your suggestion can be used for those. Making the "kill mantisses" mission more like the "take stuff from the crate" mission would reduce the variety.

Kill X number of Y mobs had already been done to death before dailies came along. It's hardly uncommon at all for them to add some quest that at some point or even multiple points sends us off to do just that. Although those can work alright in some areas like outside where we have more space to move and there can be an ample number of all the mobs. Then generated missions are all kill, kill, kill, kill so you can get the full reward making kill related tasks the overdone mission type more than anything. So something not completely centered around killing would provide more variation than yet more kill focused missions.

The problem in doing these kill ones in places like smuggs or other open dungeons is that there are a good number of various mobs that always agg are congested and mixed together in small spaces plus multiple people can be running around doing various things. It's primarily about functionality regardless of how many people are there, what those people are doing, how many of the mobs exist, how the mobs are arranged, how long it takes mobs to respawn and so forth.

People would still generally need to kill stuff to get to the various goals rather than be like the more passive handing out beer fliers daily mission for lvl 200+ chars. The difference between the changed version and current one is that you don't need to kill certain ones, in a certain order or necessarily kill anything. Just kill off or calm anything that gets in your way.

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You have drifted into flames, lying, and off-topic insults now Pheonix so I am not going to bother replying to your walls of text anymore.

You have from the start only skimmed around reading random bits rather than the whole thing. Then from those random bits you respond but as you only saw random bits and not the whole you missed things. As a result you talk about things that weren't actually there and I end up explaining the same thing over and over and over and over. Yet as you then continue to only read bits and pieces you still have yet to understand what was written and now accuse me of falsehoods, not thinking things through and so forth. If you actually read what was written from the start as you are required to properly discuss something it would not have dragged on like this. I've said that different times already as well.

Like in your last post you were griping about how my idea would supposedly have people training around. All you read was the first bit, right after that I added how as you can't have agg to do the task you can't train to the goal. You didn't see that as you didn't read it. That's what has caused all this. As a result you repeatedly have preached to me about this or that which I didn't actually say.

I have been going by what you have actually said. You're the one that's been going off on a tangent at different points as you didn't read what was said yet still tried to respond. If you're not willing to read what's written, don't respond at all. Heck, don't even try to start a discussion in the first place as it seems you're not willing to take part in one properly.

I will offer a simple and on-topic question for you.

Why do regular mobs need a TWENTY FIVE (25) Minute respawn?

Because there are better more functional options as I've said often enough already.

Before any more of your fantasy land comments:

http://i777.photobucket.com/albums/y...r/scrn0280.png

People can post pictures of lvl one chars standing in the Beast's room. So such an image doesn't mean anything as it doesn't prove anything.

[Gatester]

Like in your last post you were griping about how my idea would supposedly have people training around. All you read was the first bit, right after that I added how as you can't have agg to do the task you can't train to the goal. You didn't see that as you didn't read it. That's what has caused all this. As a result you repeatedly have preached to me about this or that which I didn't actually say.

I have been going by what you have actually said. You're the one that's been going off on a tangent at different points as you didn't read what was said yet still tried to respond. If you're not willing to read what's written, don't respond at all. Heck, don't even try to start a discussion in the first place as it seems you're not willing to take part in one properly.

Anyone can train, most people do train, and the only thing stopping most the trains in smuggler's now is the fact that you HAVE to kill the mobs for the mission in order. You honestly think players cannot lose aggro if they really wanted to? We do it all the time, and your assumption that people fail at losing aggro is surely based on your own ineptitude.

We are not talking about Pande mobs here. These are slow and low damage mantis that can be train forever in this twisty dungeon.

Because there are better more functional options as I've said often enough already.

Just because you say it does not make it better. If I wanted to get trained more then yes, your suggestion would be brilliant. Unfortunately I am already sick of the ones doing YOUR mission type in the hangar area TRAINING ME.

You still have not offered a justification for any regular mob, be it a mantis or a backyard leet, having a 25 minute respawn.

People can post pictures of lvl one chars standing in the Beast's room. So such an image doesn't mean anything as it doesn't prove anything.

I'll give you a hint. Before you start questioning the validity of a picture, recognize the ****ing damage logs in the chat window and the xp gained.


You are a flaming and lying troll Phoenix. Take your walls of text without a shred of common sense and lay them into some other player's thread. I tried to be patient with you, and if you wouldn't type several paragraphs for a single counter-point half the people in this thread would not have thought you were talking about instancing.

[MachSchau]

Hey guys, what are you arguing about?

[Notcrattey]

Hey guys, what are you arguing about?

I have no idea either, phoenix's post are so long and un interesting I didn't even get past one sentence.

Bump for shorter respawn and not having to do the killing in order.

[PhoenixOfAges]

Anyone can train, most people do train, and the only thing stopping most the trains in smuggler's now is the fact that you HAVE to kill the mobs for the mission in order. You honestly think players cannot lose aggro if they really wanted to? We do it all the time, and your assumption that people fail at losing aggro is surely based on your own ineptitude.

We are not talking about Pande mobs here. These are slow and low damage mantis that can be train forever in this twisty dungeon.

In a dungeon like smuggs each room short of the odd tiny in between one has mobs, most of which will agro on sight regardless of your lvl. This means if you go tearing around there will be no place to run off to so you can lose the agg you have. If you keep running you'd be more likely to build up more agg as you go to more rooms with more mobs in them. This would especially be the case for chars in the range that get these missions which would have less run speed than say a 220. I saw a soldier trying to get to the smuggs area by the looks of it that tried to just run through the lowbie mantis area. Instead of losing agg he kept building up a bigger train of mantises till they eventually killed him.

If you can't have agg to do the task then the most effective way would be to carefully kill or calm your way to the goal which would always be there as it can't be killed or destroyed. As I said in earlier posts just as the kill ones have multiple stages these could too. So around the area you find the mobs you would kill there would be a goal to reach. This means you would not have to go forward too far before there is some goal so there also would not be much space to loose agg and training most certainly would not help do the task.

Then the ones that can more readily survive a large group of mobs chasing them down would be chars higher in lvl than would get the related mission. Like a big chain of CoH mobs for a lvl 70-100 char wouldn't work out very well for that char. The low lvl mantis mission ends around lvl 120-125, a horde of mantises bashing on a lvl 100-120 char would surely result in the death of said char.

Just because you say it does not make it better. If I wanted to get trained more then yes, your suggestion would be brilliant. Unfortunately I am already sick of the ones doing YOUR mission type in the hangar area TRAINING ME.

Since you can't have agg when you do the task and would have no space to loose that agg since all the rooms have mobs and there are multiple goals spaced not too far from each other how would one train to the goals and mange to complete them?

You still have not offered a justification for any regular mob, be it a mantis or a backyard leet, having a 25 minute respawn.

So what is so great about waiting for mob respawns when there are alternatives to having to wait on mob spawns? I've given you various examples why you would need to wait on multiple spawns since things wouldn't always go as ideally as you seem to think they would. What's so great about waiting?

I'll give you a hint. Before you start questioning the validity of a picture, recognize the ****ing damage logs in the chat window and the xp gained.

People can actually take a lvl one char into the Beast room with help if they really wanted to you know. Who's to say for certain the MP didn't get some degree of help. A picture doesn't prove it made it there on it's own, it doesn't even for certain prove it was there.

Aside from that pet profs have it easier as they can just send their pet ahead and hide in the prior room if the mobs are deemed a threat. MPs then have a heal pet and a mez pet in addition to an attack pet which certainly can help. I did the smugg area kill mission with a lvl 125 MP which has some dark red mobs at that lvl and you can't pull them as they don't agro on sight resulting in a bunch of mobs attacking at once. I wouldn't have managed as well with various other profs as I did with the MP.

You are a flaming and lying troll Phoenix. Take your walls of text without a shred of common sense and lay them into some other player's thread. I tried to be patient with you, and if you wouldn't type several paragraphs for a single counter-point half the people in this thread would not have thought you were talking about instancing.

You see, once again here you go saying I'm talking about something I'm not. I never said to instance it, in fact I said in a prior post to another person they wouldn't need to. Now yet again you're saying I want to instance it like how you said my idea promotes training. All that is because you just don't read what's written then still try to post responses. Your responses then can be well off the mark and you start ranting about something I didn't even say.

You know why my posts keep getting longer? It's as from what you've responded with you have yet to read any of them them through. As a result I end up having to repeat myself again and again hoping this time you'll actually read it as well as debunking your claims that were made as a result of your not actually reading my posts but just trying to figure it out from the odd bit you looked at here and there. Then yet again you don't read the new post, make more false assumptions as you didn't read the post, repeat old false assumptions and it all just snowballs into a longer post next time around.

[erozc]

Seriously. Losing agg is not nigh impossible in Smuggler's Den. I've done it on a level 120 shade, of all things, once self buffed and once with GSF (which was much easier) on the two occasions I have had to do the Mantis mission solo. Every room has mantis mobs waiting? Well just train them back 5-6 rooms and run back. You may have to go back and forth a number of times, but it works.

Note that no gimps/froobs/noobs/any other players were harmed during these training exercises.