Cryday with Means - May 15th, 2009

[torakx]

i think more special effects and cool mechanical animations with more cool sound effects would make a hugh difference to the game in general.

like when u cast a nano like ams id love to hear a star wars type sound like a lightsabre starting up instead of the regular TSSSHH noise for everything.

[magzu33]

hmm.. nice new features in the next patch but.. well this isnt related to the patch but could you fix the "become a tester" link on the test server forums?

[IHaveHugeNick]

If even half that stuff happened, AO would collapse. It's currently riding itself on the free rein that all the points Meaty's made is giving players, and any cutoff with that would kill subscriptions very fast.

That, yeah. He has some really awesome points though, but just as unrealistic.

[Verta]

AO 2:
In regards to AO 2 that really does not seem necessary or wise. With a MMORPG all sorts of things or really everything is subject to change. So if the problem is some aspects of AO as it is rather than scrap the whole thing and start over may as well just adjust those things. A new version of a MMORPG is done if they want to take the title into a new direction making the game into a new beast entirely for the most part. So if they make another AO it's certain to be a dumbed down version as that is the trend of MMORPGs and what they've done with AO some already. So twinking and other things that define AO and turn people away due to the learning curve would be gone or nerfed to near oblivion. Then there's the community split, some would stick with the first, others would leave for the second. Look at AoC and the problems over there. Look at what happened with Ashren's Call 2. The world economy sucks right now so people and businesses are looking to spend less, not more. Things are running fairly smoothly over here, things are getting done and fixed so just let them fix up and update AO.

It can still have the twinking and a steep learning curve. But the learning curve can be smoothed out and made not so credit reliant for the first 50-100 levels. AO has always been a game of alts, try rolling a new toon with no credits or support of your org on a different server and even with all the knowledge of the game it is an extremely frustrating experience.

Without any major twinking you'll need about 1-2 mil credits to get to level 50 just for implants, semi decent weapons and some carb. Unless you embark on reselling med suits and concrete cushions you have no way of making that much. And when I start a new game I want to kill stuff, not speculate on the market that I know nothing about. LE armor was the right idea, but obtaining it a lower levels is poorly implemented.

We still need to have twinks but the new players need to be brought up to the level of an old player levelling an alt. Be it through world drops or quest rewards or rework of crafting system so everyone got access to it, not just engies hiding from "crab pl0x kthxbai'

Levelling progression through lower levels has to be a lot more intuitive too. AO needs 'breadcrumb' quests to take players to new zones, so they are not lost after the subway and if they do find their way into totw then they have to content with finding foremans or if they have upgraded before that move on to killing hecks hecks hecks for the next 100 levels after which they can progress to leaching inf easies. But that is a whole different story.

So no, I don't think taking AO into a new direction and based on a new engine would be a bad thing that would not bring any new players. Financial side of things is a different story of course.

[Gunfytr]

screw that, they make a ao2 they better let us import our chars, i ain't starting over.

Unbelievably big bump. Yup, that would be enuff for me, Id be gone.

[Kaylinne]

Unbelievably big bump. Yup, that would be enuff for me, Id be gone.

Same. Life is too short >.>

[sultryvoltron]

Same. Life is too short >.>

To drink cheap booze?

[windcaster]

Verta


a lot of what you say has some truth in it, i did have help from a friendly 220 MA who got me setup with some carb and glyph of a arcana way back when it turned your name red and people would pay you for it.

it all started with "can you show me where the shop is?" yes i was that green, and then he bought me some carb and got me some implants (i did'nt beg he just offered)

i think that kinda charity is really good because it really helps new players out a lot and at higher levels a few ml credits here or there ain't much.

even without the help though, knowledge of the game is the biggest asset.
even with that ma's help getting some carb and implants i worked my rear off
getting and selling low level buff items i spent a lot of time sitting in bor on shop chan back in the day selling my wares, hours and hours.

having done it once though i dont wanna do it again i tried to start a char on rk1, it was to painful because i had already "worked' for my start on rk2, and i did'nt wanna do it again.. now days even if i had credits i dont think i'd do anything on rk1.. grinding has wore me out.

[rustinel]

Yup, thats the problem right there. If established players cba to do it with all the assets/support they got ready then you can imagine a new player will just give up. There are a load of MMO out there way easier to get into.

The things some of us love about AO...the complexity, the sheer bloody mindedness of it, the twinking is what puts new players off.

Lots will say 'We don't need more noobs/casual players/etc'. The game does need them though. The game needs subs and needs new interest. Who knows when the new engine will appear. A lot of the work Means is doing is excellent and much appreciated...but by veterans, the newer players have no idea what it means or why its good. They are too busy selling med suits or figuring out how to put their imps on...when they can finally afford them.

The MMO landscape has changed. AO could be considered a 'niche' game. Yes we are all sick perverts. But thats fine, we just need enough sick perverts to keep it going.

[windcaster]

lol sick perverts? i dont consider my self a sick pervert..

i'll tell you the saving grace imo is the froob program.. i dont think this game would still be here without it.

thats how i got my start, i was playing pool on yahoo and seen the ad for a free game.. clicked on it and tried it out.. never heard of AO, scifi is ok but it's not the reason i started playing.. fantasy is also ok with me. and to be honest the only thing different between this and a fantasy game is the spells are called nano programs..

but i never seen that ad since then.. i think they need to spend more money on online advertisement and sell the "Free" aspect.

a lot of people simply dont even know this game exists..

a lot of froobs that stick with it eventually upgrade... i think it's true that some get frustrated and quit earily on.. it's easy to see how that can happen.

another things this games go is it's geared for adults.. and i love that i can get away with saying something "adult' In chat and it's not auto filtered or ark's pop out of the wood work to scold me.

sure someone could still /pet you for getting carried away but a few *bleeps* here and there is not a big deal.

a lot of games out there are VERY strict on language and (or) have auto filter.. it's nice to not feel like you're playing with 10 year olds all the time.. even though yes there are some in AO. (or at least act like it)

[PhoenixOfAges]

It can still have the twinking and a steep learning curve. But the learning curve can be smoothed out and made not so credit reliant for the first 50-100 levels.

If you think a game like AO with all the twinking and options would be made today anymore then I have this nice sandy plot of land to sell you. All the twinking and options are what gives it the learning curve it has so you can't have it easy to play and complex at the same time, pick one or the other. Look at AoC, they even said they were aiming it at causual gamers and that's the trend. Easy to get into, easy to learn games for casual players without the massive series of options. An AO 2 would be like that too and be nothing like the AO we have now aside from the setting and at least some of the profs being in the game. Hordes of options and the high learning curve that goes with it keeps people out of the game. Now everyone is out to make the next WoW, not another game like AO.

If you change too much of what else you were talking about it also would not be the game it is now. Instead it would be the casual gamers type of game of today where things are spoon fed to you. If you can get along with no trouble at all you don't get the same sense of accomplishment as you do when you have to plug away at things more. Your first char in any new game to you will always be the slowest and hardest to progress. Although once you've got it a ways it will help future chars to progress more rapidly and easily through more knowledge of the game plus it getting your new chars items and creds.

Then people seem to think you should be able to rip through the lvls easily. Why, if you can coast through lvl x-y at break neck speeds what's the point in even having lvls at all? The time and effort involved in progression helps you learn to play your char better. Hacking away in outside tank teams leads to chars like lvl 160+ docs that don't use init debuffs or heals as they have none since they never needed to use them due to the safety of the outside tanks. Rapid progression with simple quests hand holding you along the way is just as bad really.

AO is a niche game. There aren't legions of people looking for a game that has all the options AO has which takes time to learn and so on. But if you strip that from the game so as to make it a casual gamers game it wouldn't be the game it is and lose many of the current players.

screw that, they make a ao2 they better let us import our chars, i ain't starting over.

Name me just one MMORPG sequel or most any game sequel that has that as I can't think of any. In making a sequel they tend to change so much in the make up of the game and char developement you have no option but to start over. Even if all the profs/classes in it are the same. So if you think an AO 2 would ever have the option of char transfers, especially when they were already promising server transfers in AO about three years ago and still haven't, then you're seriously dreaming.

[Fekal]

How's the professional program going, should be done before the 18.1 hits live.

[windcaster]

Name me just one MMORPG sequel or most any game sequel that has that as I can't think of any. In making a sequel they tend to change so much in the make up of the game and char developement you have no option but to start over. Even if all the profs/classes in it are the same. So if you think an AO 2 would ever have the option of char transfers, especially when they were already promising server transfers in AO about three years ago and still haven't, then you're seriously dreaming.

my god how did you get all that out of one sentence, i must be a powerful writer.. no wait i did'nt say or even imply any of that..

i simply said if they make a ao 2 and i have to start over i wont be playing it..

end of statement.

if you say the probability of there being a ao 2 and having char transfers is 0.00% then that means i wont be playing it, logic ftw.

[K1nkstaah]

bump for Cryday with Means.

Please implement it for every week.

[Verta]

I am not in any way advocating for AO to be turned into another WoWesque type of game. But it doesn't have to be so hard to start.

I also received a carepackage from a kind player when I was level 24 with some carb, set of implants, a medsuite, couple of twinking pistols, he even buffed me with complit expertise and run speed and told me how to get to totw.
Would I still be playing if he hadn't helped me? I do not know. I was lucky enough to have a friend ingame a few levels higher than me and a good org almost from the start. But he certainly helped a lot.

Still it shouldn't be other players job to make the game playable for newbies.

There is a hell of a lot to learn to start with, and its a good thing; realising what you are lacking equipment wise and that you have no way of getting it bar buying credits is not.

New players need to be given a chance to concentrate on learning the IP system and implants and what abilities effect what skill, and a few would find it fun to do. But noone enjoys credit farming at low levels.

The outside tanks and 160 docs with no heals are the product of the system we have now. They are powering through the levels because they can't solo, can't attempt anything challenging, don't know that 2/3 of the content even exists.

AO is a niche game, but there are a lot more people it would appeal to that are currently playing, including those who given up at low levels.

Of course without the new engine and advertising all of the above is a moot point.

[Esproc]

The only reason I started to play and still do is the character creation options.
The more that cookie cutter setups get pushed, the less I feel like playing.
The more that game mechanics are made irrelevant, the less I feel like playing.

I.e.
Armors/shields/reflects/absorbs all lacking damage type holes.
Damage type now only matters when you are hitting for multiple types.

Less grinding and more playing is a good thing, blitzing levels is a bad thing.
Find a balance please?

etc. etc.

[Menzagitat]

Means please kill the grinding. Or at least give us your opinion on this topic.

Less grinding and more playing is a good thing, blitzing levels is a bad thing.
Find a balance please?

"The essence of balance is detachment. To embrace a cause, to grow fond or spiteful, is to lose one's balance, after which, no action can be trusted. Our burden is not for the dependent of spirit." -Mayar, Third Keeper

[PhoenixOfAges]

I am not in any way advocating for AO to be turned into another WoWesque type of game. But it doesn't have to be so hard to start.

All games of this type tend to have slow start when you're brand new as you're starting with nothing. They may do as was done with newbie isl and give you an easy way to get some decent starter gear. Although after that you'd need to do some plugging away to get more game currency and such. Your first char will be gimp, that's also common with games of this type as you can't get the best of the best when brand new. Although you keep at it, farm some stuff and your future chars will have a much easier time of things and be much better equipped.

Still it shouldn't be other players job to make the game playable for newbies.

The game is playable without handouts, I didn't get any and was just fine. Although this is a MMORPG and not a single player game so assistance of some nature and dealings with others is part of the concept of MMORPGs.

The outside tanks and 160 docs with no heals are the product of the system we have now. They are powering through the levels because they can't solo, can't attempt anything challenging, don't know that 2/3 of the content even exists.

No, it's the result of people wanting things NOW. Docs were just one example but I've run into enfs and various other profs with nanos and such that haven't been updated in who knows how long. At 160+ they aren't even using stuff lvl 60 fr00b chars of mine can use with ease.

If you work on your char you can solo and lvl just fine for the first 160 or so lvls (some profs better than others) in SL or team and lvl faster and further. You most certainly do not in any way need an outside tank to babysit you.

Then the reason they don't know about a lot of things is they are in a huge rush to get to 220 or whatever. It's when you wander around on your own trying various things and going various places that you find out about some of the different things out there. Instead all they see from the earliest lvls to 160-200 is a 220 enf mongoing hecks as they wack away at them in complete safety or sit AFK as others do. Then from 160-200+ they're running inf missions as the high lvls kill the stuff in them and they try to avoid getting agro in their med-suits and what not. Not until about 210+ do they figure their suppose to contribute or put much if any effort into their char and that's what's wrong.



If you remove the many options and features that take time to learn, make lvling very fast and easy and make getting better stuff very easy it would be another WoW like game. One where you're at max lvl with little trouble with no need to team up. It hand holds or spoon feeds you everything and you'd have to be brain dead not to understand it all.

AO expects you to have some sort of functional brain in your head, to work with others and you're not at cap in short order with little effort. That's what keeps a lot of people playing AO but the reverse is what causes people to get tired of WoW.

my god how did you get all that out of one sentence, i must be a powerful writer.. no wait i did'nt say or even imply any of that..

It was late when that was written up but the point was it all relates to the idiocy of figuring rather than correcting AO they should make AO 2. We would have to start over and as we should all know an AO 2 would be some dumbed down bleached blond idiot of a game compare to AO. AO isn't perfect, but I sure as hell wouldn't play the type of AO we should all know would be made in the age of spoon fed casual player MMORPGs.

[Menzagitat]

The outside tanks and 160 docs with no heals are the product of the system we have now. They are powering through the levels because they can't solo, can't attempt anything challenging, don't know that 2/3 of the content even exists.

Half true. People who power level know already the game quite well.
They are indeed the result of the system but PhoenixOfAges is right too:

No, it's the result of people wanting things NOW.

The boring way to reach higher levels on our time and our money is the problem.

As meatybtz say:

Nothing wrong with bashing your way up in levels if the fights are short and get my adreneline pumping. I want each fight to be an exciting encouter.

Some people may argue that there are also other ways to level...
but all have to agree that the most efficient recipe is hecklers and inferno missions.

Imagine the new players satisfaction. Especially if they are experienced players in other MMORPGS.

I hope Means will do something with this grinding issue.

[flyinguns]

Half true. People who power level know already the game quite well.
They are indeed the result of the system but PhoenixOfAges is right too:


The boring way to reach higher levels on our time and our money is the problem.

As meatybtz say:



Some people may argue that there are also other ways to level...
but all have to agree that the most efficient recipe is hecklers and inferno missions.

Imagine the new players satisfaction. Especially if they are experienced players in other MMORPGS.

I hope Means will do something with this grinding issue.

*

Ya but the thing which ao lack the most is : role playing and goal

http://www.anarchy-online.com/anarch...ge_130x600.jpg
I have been more than scandalized to see this picture.

Why aoc have this kind of goal and Ao have any? I want to play to do something not playing to play. i want to see the result of my playing.
Why do i see other mmo telling in there advertising : we need you to win the war, join us to protect the planet etc.....

In Ao it's i want to be 220 to be able to do all instance to be able to pvp because if i roxx in pvp i will show othe player that i roxx etc.....


That goal, the role the game give you and the effect you have on the game is what make the soul of any game.
In a pvp game more you play more a side win. in a pve game more you play more your story continue.
Ao have an huge story but it doesn't merge with gameplay.


Atm i think ao lack a soul. Damn, i see magician robe in a futurist game!
I leveld for leveling, i farmed for farming all that for what? when i become stronger what will it give me? what will it do ?
Bah that will just help me my E-peen to growth that all.
and that why many player here have an very huge ego.



When you player play a final fantasy , it can be for different reason, for the story, for the highscore, because he finished the game one time and he want to reach the 100% etc..)


Then now i don't even know why i play oa if it's not only just for the community.
The story isn't accessible enough (it's usualy an huge wall of text who disturb you when you want your quest items), there is no more goal but to have uber gear and to show it to other while you tank lord of the void.



Yay ok , but those goal are made by player so.........

I'm bored

And no i won't do the new playfield over and over again, i already did an instance 250 time (sl-pen mission) i'm tired, leave me alone!