Friday with Means - September 3rd, 2010 - Battlestation changes

[Nevo-RK3]

thanks for making my day. as if leveling toons don't get chainkilled now in bs.
leveling toons couldn't care less if they are insta killed by 150ish, 165ish,174ish or 200ish twinks.

the only ones crying are those that can easily kill all the leveling toons in the bs, without them having any chance. they are crying now because they won't be uber in that bs anymore.

because they would have to twink/level/equip again... or simply make a second toon for bs (unbelievable hu? you can have more than one toon for nw/bs)

Maybe some people worked a lot on their toons, dont have time for a new toon again and would like to benefit from what they achieved so far?
And there is quite a few 150 twinks who do rather well so far in pvp AND s10, and against 174 there still is some chance for a fun fight, while at 150 vs 200 there isnt.
I love my 150 toons and i like them on bs as well as s10, but against lvl 200 toons, that fun is over .
And yes i also enjoy my lvl 170 agent.

[PhoenixOfAges]

I just want to say that as of reply number 412 (post 413) this thread became the longest one in the Community Corner forum. Which may have been what Means was going for, who knows.

[Ayria]

I just want to say that as of reply number 412 (post 413) this thread became the longest one in this forum. Which may have been what Means was going for, who knows.

In FwM/Community Corner you mean right?

Cause there's some suggestions that went on a while.

[PhoenixOfAges]

In FwM/Community Corner you mean right?

Cause there's some suggestions that went on a while.

Right, that's what I meant by "this forum." Oh well, I'll go back and change that to ensure there's no confusion.

On a side note there's a few in Reets about 2k-3.7k replies long.

[Luziciona]

....hopefully 20+ pages in 3-4 days sends a strong signal:

Maybe listen to opinions and evaluate before the changes are made?

[Boltgun]

My input on this :

First range (1-30) : not really useful, BS doesn't have to be there at level 1, let the new playfield do its job for vp there. Other then that, let the newbie level up first.

Last range (210-220) : the 220s make it run a lot so I don't think we need to work on that.

The interesting range (150-175) : Can be increased to eat up the other ranges but this one's active so why screw it up ?

Leveling toons are getting killed almost instantly and seriously BS looks like a purgatory for them. This is the kind of crap that kills the game for new players. And it's beyond me that people here find this normal. It's not!

Making level ranges this large will make it worse. Imo the TL5 BS should be 150-189 then 190-209. There is still a gap but at 190 I believe it's a smaller one to cross, a lesser evil of sort and we have knocked out one tier.

If BS is more active at other level range, it could help to look at them and see how newer players, who are the game's future mind you, are enjoying this.

It's a good idea to change the level ranges, but really think about the newbie experience and steps required of them to stop being free kills. Maybe this gap should be reduced, and mechs looked at because afaik it was supposed to provide help with that.

[sawtyss]

Uhm... Imho this won't fix anything!
You are still putting the majority of players in two BS groups!
150-200 will have all the S10, and tower twinks out there!
I agree that joining 201-220 together is a good idea to make it envelop more ppl, but wouldn't it be better to look to the future?:P
I mean there's gonna be a new sector right? For 150-200?
So people out there will have lots of twinks for it!
What I'm proposing is to make a small tweak to the lvl range:

1-30
31-60
61-99
(Obviously those won't run anyways -,- maybe with the exception of 31-60, but will still require those 49 twinks out there to do sthing :P)
100-150 (INCLUDE the S10 twinks here!)
151-200 (INCLUDE the S07 twink here!)
201-220

Whatcha guys think?

[-LL-]

Ok means after alot of thought of where the twink levels are and and the problem with the ranges you put up as listed by so many I am making this suggesting.

1-29 subway twinks would be the top dogs
30-60 totw twinks would be top dogs and possibly make this BS run a lot.
61-100 Given the foreman twinks a place to be top dogs
101-150 S10 twinks are top dogs and don't have to worry about fighting 200's
151-200 200 is the top froob and well it is a good level to twink and S7 twinks
201-219 just makes sense.
220 face it at 220 endgame setups can over power 219's. A place for the top dogs to go and fight.

this, for real.

[Flipyap]

1-25 subway twinks would be the top dogs
26-60 totw twinks would be top dogs and possibly make this BS run a lot.
61-100 Given the foreman twinks a place to be top dogs
101-150 S10 twinks are top dogs and don't have to worry about fighting 200's
151-200 200 is the top froob and well it is a good level to twink
201-219 just makes sense.
220 face it at 220 endgame setups can over power 219's. A place for the top dogs to go and fight.

I've been watching this thread a lot this week, and this suggestion makes most sense IMHO.

[Esproc]

I think I'm tired of the debate tbh.
I'll just see where the ranges fall and start over when the time comes -_-

[mozaix]

I think the proposed changes to tl5 BS is a bad move. The differences between level 150-200 are far too great. Just take a look at the perk access, 150 vs 174 vs 200:

SL Perk Points 15, 17, 20
AI Perk Points 20, 24, 30

A level 200 toon will have access to 5 more SL perks and 10 AI perks compared to a level 150 toon. Looking at the different skills you can pour IP into, with the titlelevel caps in mind, we're talking about ~25 levels effective (exclusive breed caps). Then we have nanos, items, spare ip etc.

If this ever goes live, please make a cap change on pvp ranges outside min range. That is, if a level 200 ever hits somebody below min pvp range, caps would be like:
30 - (difference from min level range)

For instance, a level 200 hit a level 150 toon, it would be: 30 - (159-150)= 21
This way, damage from a level 200 toon would be capped at 21% against a level 150.

Anyways, I would prefere tl5 to stay as it is. I think it is fine except for some minor stuff, but if you have to change it, please set it to no more than 150-189.

[Animistic]

Removing 150s from Tl5 BS (that 151-200 suggestion), would be like taking away half of the playerbase from there. It would then end up in two BSes that neither runs actively enough, instead of 1 active one.

And certain 150 profs can do quite nicely at TL5 BS as it is, such as MAs, docs, traders, enfos and soljas. Current proposal of 150-200 BS would make the gap too wide for em to be anymore useful against the 200s.

[Luziciona]

100 - 150 would make S10 twinks total kings of the hill;
no fun at all for people fresh out of tiigs/Foremans...

Decent 150s can solo ely hecks, self-buffed.
Most level 100-120 can only dream of that.

I say 100-139 - to prevent evade classes to rule too hard...
140-164 - "middle league" S10 vs some NW twinks.
165-189 - BS twinks vs levelling people.

..other ranges are really not my main concern,
but I'd like to see either 220 only, or some kind of "endgame elite" BS.

[Herkulease]

I like the idea of 150-200.

Will it make 174's get pwned by uber 200 twinks? A couple. But most 174 twinks will **** the /wannabe 200 pvpers. 8p

[Luziciona]

Okay, number crunching time:
According to auno.org, there are approx. 1000 players level just 184 - 189 (with AI) on RK1:
(I gave up cutting and pasting from auno.org into spreadsheet after I hit 1500ish players...)

Sorting for "online" there are 37 people logged in right now, 164-189. Of those, 26 have AI.
Adjusting for alts, "on vacation" etc, there should be 30-something available + fr00bs.
This would mean action in 164 - 189 BS, at peak US and Euro "playing time".

At level 140-164, there are 300ish players listed, with expansion, RK1.
Using similar number sorting, we could see 20ish people at peak hours.

Okay. So tell me again: Why won't this work?

If words fail; Use math!

[ElBoogy]

well BS is one out of 10842395 Actions you could do in AO with your character.... so if 30-something people are online it would take at least ~33% of them to run BS, i have NEVER seen 33% of a group in AO does the same thing... except maybe Ely hecks with OST...

[-LL-]

I say 100-139 - to prevent evade classes to rule too hard...
140-189 - BS twinks vs levelling people.
190-215 - levelling people vs NTs
216-220 - elite BS

fixed.

[Coldan]

A. Whiiiiine....

Its unattractive

B. OMG YOU MEAN I HAVE TO MAKE ANOTHER TOON?

yes, and it'll give you something to do, other than whine on the forums...dust off your NT's parked at every level range people...you're in for a 2 day leveling fest...a couple weeks of aliens...(and that's only if you decided not to level your current twinks...BS specific twinks are stupid imho anyway)

C. BUT ALL MY WASTED TIME/CREDS

Too bad lol...like that hasn't happened before. Learn to adapt, like the % of the community who doesn't bother whining on the forums.

D. BUT IT'LL RUIN TTL 5 BS!!!

Again...yes, you can make another toon...or you can still defend/attack towers (y'know the real reason for twinks)

E. BLAH BLAH BLAH RANGES WERE FINE AT TTL 7 BLAH BLAH

...Like there's only one time zone...if you have the unfortunate curse of being a west coast US player...you have a LOT of dead time...assuming you work to support yourself.

F. PVM'ers aren't going to like this, and twinks aren't going to like that, and everything is going to make babies cry..!!

Seriously now...each time something changes, a bunch of you write a damn novel/manifesto/ultimatum post on how it will destroy EVERYTHING...as far as I can tell, the only thing destroying "everything" is the boat full of modernized MMO's, and whether this one will ever actually make the leap.

p.s.


@Wantsumore completely agree with you buddy...because of the way IP and perk lvl ranges etc work...yeah 200's will be tough, but the really good 174's will just see it as pvp "hard mode"

good luck whiners

a bunch of us are watching and laughing at your frustration, while we just roll 200's and have fun. GO GO reignofwar soon to be 200 fixer!

[Luziciona]

I do not like to meet 174 twinks in BS, even though one of my toons (keeper) is one...
Reason: Despite big budget and years of PvM experience, I get wtf pwned over and over.
...at least it feels like it. And it is NO FUN. Luckily I can get my gear elsewhere.
Others cannot, or at least not gear even close to the stuff the top crowd have.

New players (if they make it this far) get their first taste of PvP at TL5.
Coming from regular or power-levelling, they have no idea what they are up against.

An old teaching principle is to give challenges, but don't make them too tough.
Huge obstacles breaks your spirit instead of strengthening it, and many quit.

In my honest opinion, 150 - 200 BS range will scare hordes of new people away.

Do we want a hardcore elitist game with fewer and fewer players...?

[Brofist]

lol @ people saying 150s stand a chance vs 165s/174s.

Enfos are the only exception to the rule I can think of.