Friday with Means - May 21st, 2010 - Instability in Greece caused by Macrosun!

[JenShay]

Want more PeeVe-Pee?

Get organised. Make weekly events.
I see this as a player problem. Plenty to do. Not many doing it. Grow your group, open up your options.

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Totally ignored why? Since, the devs must run around wiping everyone's noses. Too much sitting back and expecting others to organise, engineer or level for them going on around here.

[Keldros]

Imagine if people did arrange to have a little red vs blue fight in WTF. They show up at different ends of the dungeon and then buff up and start to head towards each other. They fight a bit and one side kills the other side in like 5 minutes and then they either have to wait for the other side to get back and buff up and get ready for another 5 minute skirmish, or they all just go home. Now I ask you (all of you), why would people do that when they can do BS, NW, tara, city PvP, PvM, guild activities and so on in stead?

Now imagine

when they can do BS, NW, tara, city PvP, PvM, guild activities and so on in stead?

...then why are then trying to turn every suggestion thread or FWM ever started into another epic "we need more PVP content" whinefest while their toons spend 100% of the time afk at Borealis grid instead of doing any of the above?

[Ayria]

Now imagine
...then why are then trying to turn every suggestion thread or FWM ever started into another epic "we need more PVP content" whinefest while their toons spend 100% of the time afk at Borealis grid instead of doing any of the above?

Because that stuff is boring already and they want something new that they can grind non-stop like they did with Collector and get bored with it in a week so they can get back to the one thing they never tire of: whining.

[Wiegersma]

Every year i did write, the arena is on the wrong places.
You need to put him in Borealis, that's the living city where almost every player comes.

Normal live is city gets bigger because every thing you can find there and growing with the city.
This is travel, travel, travel and travel, and that sometimes 1 hour to get there.

I think new players are thinking, arena what is that?
Because they are on places nobody comes

[Lusos101]

Come on girls, stop the bitching already.

Why people dont go to arenas? Because there are BSs? Wherent the BSs implemented because people lost interest in the arenas?

The truth is that few and fewer people have interest in PvPing. Because it is completly broken. And the solution doesnt pass by forcing PvP on everybody but on fixing it. But since FC seems to not get it, they continue to try to find new ways of forcing it on people. And the result is more people leaving. Broken PvP, like broken PvM are driving people away. The solution is to fix what is broken. And since PvM is a primary aspect of the game it should be fixed first to bring in more players. Then PvP should be fixed to make it a fun activity to all that want to try it.

New PvP content (and it doesnt matter how much there is already) will not help because the majority doesnt want to participate. And the few that do will loose interest quickly because they are so few they cant get it going. Unless it is turned into another BS, where PvMers go for something and PvPers go after them (and each other). And the cycle repeats itself.

As has been pointed out already, the same happens with PvM content, new endgame content (and new content that allows for faster leveling) does nothing to renovate the playerbase, quite the opposite. But that is what we get.

[Pomidor]

We all must agree, whatever we like it or not: New engine will get new players and fresh blood - they will build this game, and not old grumpys which whine all time. Furthermore, even old grumpies will see things are changing. Maybe Tir will get Populated, maybe WA will be alive again - and those things were running city PVP before Borealis and LE stuff. Now, if u see, there is only 1 populated area - Borealis. Tir is almost dead, WA is DEAD - its not cause players doesn't want to sit there - they know those places as own pocket, thats why they know where to go to meet others. New ones will stick where they know - thus, it wil be WA and other places.

I wish FC made smooth move: If there will be Bigger Playerbase then expected, they should dibvine startPlayerPosition into WA and TIr - then, open Subway in Tir again - so this way WA wont be crowded, and Tir will get its population back. From my point of View, Tir is best designed city in this game, and its how AO should be: little haos, much adverts, much locations to RP and PVP.

[Helkus]

This is insanity, I just logged in to check if anyone laughed at my 133.7 kb comment and here we have some epic battle over nothing, reminds me why I stopped going to forums. Go outside!

[Biggreens]

This is insanity, I just logged in to check if anyone laughed at my 133.7 kb comment and here we have some epic battle over nothing, reminds me why I stopped going to forums. Go outside!

How funny that you posted that at 13.37.37 local time here

[mammothtruk]

adding new BS maps that have alternative spawn points, routes, and new mechs, turrets, tanks, and some sort of play on strengths of all professions would help PvP. But as is very few people enjoy PvP(I didnt say dont like I said enjoy current PvP).

That said PvM is going to make the most impact on old and new players. Fix the PvM and get the engine out. When thats fixed turn your focus on PvP and instead of nerfing things everywhere make things work different in PvP alone.

On the new faces I think they will do just fine. Fact is the current arent exactly straight forward as they are so low quality its easy to see what you want in them. The new faces look generally like the old ones but leave less to interpreter. What I would like to see is the new body models, how the armor looks on them, motion of the new bodies, how well they hold the weapon, how the shoulder pads sit on the shoulders, and a stroll through a well known area that features some of the new effects. A few five minute videos of various areas like P7, Scheol spirit tech thing that hangs from the roof of lower scheol, a stroll through OA, and some of the sights around RK.

[AryannaCK]

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Totally ignored why? Since, the devs must run around wiping everyone's noses. Too much sitting back and expecting others to organise, engineer or level for them going on around here.

Amen to ya. I'll admit that there are plenty of "system" problems; profession balancing, new BS maps/more group PvP options, new leveling methods, etc.. But, at some point, people have to actually start doing stuff. Why pay for a game that you a) don't want to play, or b)would prefer to run around the forums and cry about every little problem. This makes no sense to me.

I have real problems with things like OST and what not, and mostly philosophical. For the most part, I choose not to use it because I'm fundamentally against the idea of it. In other words, I am actively doing something, rather than just whining about the problem. Sure, I've made cases here about my thoughts on the matter, but I'd rather do something now to help out.

I think people forget that game developers in general (good ones, anyway) watch what people do in their game. They try to adapt the system to meet your needs, otherwise they will eventually bankrupt. Simple as that. So, if you are wanting something here, start actively doing something about the problem, and if FC is any good at all, they will recognize the phenomenon and do something about it.

If you make a big enough "thing" about it, and they still do nothing, then what are you spending your money on?

[AGPEcko]

Atrox head looks a little... odd...

[PhoenixOfAges]

Again, people go to PvP if they expect people to be there. If they have no reason to expect people to be there, they wont go.

Tower battles tend to be all offense and little to no defense outside of TL7 and maybe TL5. So even when not reasonably expecting people to show up people still go off to bash on towers. Some just pick on them a bit hoping people will come so there are those looking for PvP at lvls other then TL7 and TL5 at towers.

The only way to make people expect to find other people at WTF is to add a reason to go there in the first place.

Biggest problems with WTF was it's off in no where, would really only be useful for TL7s as lower would get raped by some just inside PvP range char and then if you die you have to haul on back, rez and rebuff. No one ever really bothered as there tended to be easier options already like Tara, 25% zones near a grid terminal, towers and now BSs.

You also have to think of PVP as something that is supposed to be enjoyable and not something people do for the sake of doing it. PvP'ers have standards too

That was practically the whole point of what I was saying in the part you quoted.

The number one mistake of those that don't PvP themselves is to apply an incredibly simplistic and black and white view on what PvP is or should be, because they themselves dislike it. ...

That whole bit has absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about at all. If you like it, fine, I'm not arguing the merits of one or the other. Although there isn't the large volume of people into PvP looking to regularly PvP in game that you claim there is as is evident by the current state of PvP content in game.

Also as there isn't all that many looking to constantly PvP if you add another form of full time PvP content it will take people away from the other forms of PvP content. That's an obvious fact. Since those are all having problems getting people to attend already more of such content will only worsen the matter. If you like it, fine, but if they add more alternative places to go with the population as it is it will do more harm than good. As I said before, it'd be better to merge that coming PvP zone with BSs rather than make it independent of it. You talked of the importance of there being people there and expecting to find people to fight, so was I.

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Phoenix, you just don't want people that enjoy PvP to get anything new for it, why then people should support the aquisition of OFAB gear in other ways not PvP? ...

You really didn't get it at all. It had nothing to do with my liking or disliking PvP (I'm just not interested in it as I even said). It's about making intelligent changes that should see improvements rather than poor ones that will almost certainly make things worse.

If you add even more alternatives when the current options can't get going too well if at all it's not going to help matters. PvM content people have figured out how to get to work with tiny little teams. People have done the intended twelve man LoX zone by dual logging two chars before for instance. PvP though does need other people for it to actually be PvP. To make matters worse as FC tries to balance it for group vs group rather than one on one you need even more people to get to the intended balance in PvP. All of which must be actual players, not multi-logged alts, NPCs or the like.

Then concerning VP as I said VP is not a PvP related reward. It's just something FC has been trying to use to get people to go to the LE PvP zones (BSs). If it purchased mostly to all only PvP usable things that would be one thing but instead it's of more interest to those not looking to PvP. My worry then in relation to the new zone is just as FC tried to get people into BSs with more VP they may do the same with the new zones since it has been stated they too will offer VP.

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If people would hang out in 2h0 for random PvP then I would love to go there and join in. So would most other people. Fun PvP is fun PvP. Problem is, people don't hang out there for PvP because they are busy with BS, NW, tara, PvM and guild activities.

So use that huge amazingly full PvP chat bot you were talking about to get people to go. "I'm going to sit around the 2HO grid terminal (25% zone), if anyone of you Clanners/Ommers have the guts come and fight me!" See stuff like that done when some people are trying to get people to go to BSs already.

[Wrangeline]

Since those are all having problems getting people to attend already more of such content will only worsen the matter. If you like it, fine, but if they add more alternative places to go with the population as it is it will do more harm than good. As I said before, it'd be better to merge that coming PvP zone with BSs rather than make it independent of it.

I haven't said anything to the contrary. In fact I have not only already pointed out that a new PvP area might cause some harm but I have also already said that if we get a new open PvP area that works well, then I'd rather see us use that and then just remove BS rather than keeping both and not having enough people for either.

O.o

Again, explaining why some places are empty, is not automatically a reasoning as to why I think we should get new places. It's just an explenation as to why some places are empty. Nothing more.

"Although there isn't the large volume of people into PvP looking to regularly PvP in game that you claim there is as is evident by the current state of PvP content in game."

^
This is kinda the topic I originally chimed in on. I personally think there are more people willing and wanting to PvP than we see evidence of in game atm. My point was always that various issues with varies things related to PvP is a bigger reason for why people don't PvP much rather than how they actually feel about PvP in general on a personal level. I personally think the lack of PvP is a symptom of circumstance and not a general like or dislike of PvP. Now, neither I nor anyone else have hard evidence we can show for either side. We can only try to explain our views on the situation and I have done so Basically just trying to explain why I think saying "few people care about PvP" is to simplistic reasoning for something which is actually very complex.

[Crowena]

Now imagine
...then why are then trying to turn every suggestion thread or FWM ever started into another epic "we need more PVP content" whinefest while their toons spend 100% of the time afk at Borealis grid instead of doing any of the above?

Because sitting AFK leaves more time to post to forums!

[Crowena]

I think that one big deterrent to get new people to PvP is that they don't stand a chance. What is the introduction to PvP for most new players? Going to low level BS with poorly equipped PvM toon that gets slaughtered by actual PvP twinks that are (probably) also much higher level than you are. That first impression is very important because it might be the difference between "all PvP sucks" and "this might be something fun to do".

[Wrangeline]

I think that one big deterrent to get new people to PvP is that they don't stand a chance. What is the introduction to PvP for most new players? Going to low level BS with poorly equipped PvM toon that gets slaughtered by actual PvP twinks that are (probably) also much higher level than you are. That first impression is very important because it might be the difference between "all PvP sucks" and "this might be something fun to do".

This is true. It's hard for new players, or even average long term players, to get into PvP when the differences between characters are so big.

It's a bit of a give/take situation. WoW is very simple and kinda boring to me because gear has no skill req to wear and thus everyone is pretty much the same. This does however make it easier for the average person to have fun in PvP. AO offers a lot of fun twinking and tweaking but that also divides the playerbase a bit.

[Tazalanche]

This is true. It's hard for new players, or even average long term players, to get into PvP when the differences between characters are so big.

It's a bit of a give/take situation. WoW is very simple and kinda boring to me because gear has no skill req to wear and thus everyone is pretty much the same. This does however make it easier for the average person to have fun in PvP. AO offers a lot of fun twinking and tweaking but that also divides the playerbase a bit.

Not to mention the expense involved to decently equip a single character for PvP is easily in the billions. That's just not possible for a new player, trying their hardest to just get 5mil for a yalm.

[Crowena]

This is true. It's hard for new players, or even average long term players, to get into PvP when the differences between characters are so big.

Even if we forget about normal leveling toons the difference between good PvM setup and decent PvP setup (including IP spending) can be huge for some professions.

It's a bit of a give/take situation. WoW is very simple and kinda boring to me because gear has no skill req to wear and thus everyone is pretty much the same. This does however make it easier for the average person to have fun in PvP. AO offers a lot of fun twinking and tweaking but that also divides the playerbase a bit.

I agree that the fun in AO comes from pushing the limits and twinking. Unfortunately that combined with the concept of pushing leveling toons to do BS makes for a lot of bad introductions to PvP. I've had (very) few fun PvP experiences with my leveling doctor. If it had not been couple of chance encounters with other leveling PvM toons in the BS I would probably be completely against PvP.

[Wrangeline]

Even if we forget about normal leveling toons the difference between good PvM setup and decent PvP setup (including IP spending) can be huge for some professions.

Also true. It's also hard to change between them seeing as we have limited IPR's and that the general process of changing setup is quite a lot of work by itself. Unlike other games like AOC or WOW or such. Some like that it's harder to change setup in AO, some don't. It's another give/take situation that, while it has its share of good aspects for some people, can also make it hard for other people to enjoy/get into PvP.

[XzSwiftcurse]

All these new heads...Id be way more happy if Funcom would fix their current client first so that ALL videocards get detected (especially geforce 7 series). Why handout people 30 days for free when they can bareley play this game at all because the client is so borked that it wont detect all videocards?

more similar issues can be found here:
http://forums.anarchyonline.com/showthread.php?t=543513